forums.marpirc.net

why is version 35 final being used? whats wrong with the version 36 final?

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cmdrtsl@earthlink.net

Being used for what? Tournaments?
<p>

Because they're supposed to use a TG version of MAME. The next
tournaments will either use .37b9tg2 or .37final-tg... depends on
whether or not M.L. does another TG version when .37 final comes out.

--
peng@demongate.ath.cx

As a warning, Marp will not be encouraging any future versions of
ML's tg mame versions because of the lack of security these versions
provide. Ben Jos is currently working on a rigourously secure as you
can get version of mame that will be coming out possibly for the next
Marp Tournamnet #6 and mame 37 final. Please use the official
windows versions when possible and don't use win37b9tg2, since either
one is about the same to hack for any intelligent hacker.

<p>

Ben's new version will require some of the top cryptological minds of
the world to hack, and they probably would rather deposit money to
their bank accounts rather than get high scores on video games.

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churritz@cts.com

I don't appreciate this remark. I spend a lot of time going through
the dos and windows versions of the code to try to stop the obvious
problem with mame35. As Chris Moore pointed out, it was always
possible to "you-know-what" by re-compiling the code. If you thought
my additions to mame35 were so "insecure" why did you bother using
it? All someone had to do was show me some code for better encryption
and I would have used it. Instead, I get to see these comments posted
on a public message board. At the very least I did enough work to
save the next guy from doing it all from stratch.

<p>

I'm not aware of any other SECURE versions. Maybe someone has already
got a polished secure version of mame, but I seriously doubt it. I
have a lot of respect for Ben Jos' programming abilities, but if he
had something finished I think I would have seen it by now. In the
mean time, I think win37b9tg2 is an improvement over the old
mame35tg3 and I would encourage it's use on MARP unless Chris Moore
objects to it.

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zero1@look.ca

Whoa, did I miss something? When did you become the embodiment of
MARP and decide what it will or won't 'recommend', Chad? I think you
were highly disrespectful to Mark's work, and mildly delusional to
boot. Mark has done tangible work for the community here and I'm glad
that we HAVE a TG version for added security with our games. Get off
your high horse.

<p>

Brian

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bmclean84@hotmail.com

Jesus H. Christ, Chad...grow up and quit your babbling. That's all it
is. I seem to keep hearing from you about this issue of hackable
encryptions, yet you provide zero real input to resolve anything. If
you are so knowledgable on this subject, quit whining from the
sidelines like this and do something about it. Until then, I applaud
Mark for all of his efforts in trying to provide a means to thwart
cheating. No, it may not be the ultimate solution or perfect solution
by any means. But, at least he's doing something about it...what have
YOU done lately?

<p>

Until you decide to spring into action, let me quote Chris
Jericho, "Shut the hell up!"

<p>

...and some people wonder why I'm absent from MARP these days...

<p>

JoustGod

--
pinballwiz1@msn.com

I fully agree with Brian here. Were is all the respect that Mark
Deserves after all his hard work with his TG mame? We have all used
his versions of MAME in alot of tournaments etc. Without Mark the
security would have been ZERO!

<p>

Cheers, and keep up the good work Mark!

<p>

QRS

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qrs@telia.com

I think i've respected mark enough. I aplauded him for getting the
ball rolling with m35tg3. I was the first to congradulate him for
starting with the mame tg versions and making improvments to m35tg2
to become tg3. when m35tg3 came out after a few weeks of testing the
first version everything seemed fine, but then both me and ben jos
found a serious problem with it, we mailed him for months warning of
the problem, and all he could do is sit on his own high horse not
admiting there was anything wrong with it and not even reply to
either of us. This is just plain ignorant.

<p>

As far as anyone is concered, there is no difference between mark's
new win37b9 version than the official one, infact Ben Jos informs me
that the same frame information is recorded in it along with the so
called encrypted frame information making it completley trivial to
fake a recording with it. We dont need to applaud something that
isn't doing what it's supposed to do; keep everyone on an even
playing level. I'm sorry but mark has taken credit for something
that doesn't deserve all that much credit especially when he doesn't
even listen to any criticism.

--
churritz@cts.com

I should say I use m35tg3 because it's the only thing out there, we
do have Mark to thank gratefully for this version, yes at least there
is something. The new 37b version is less secure and will not
compete with the encryption, security, and ease of use (able to pause
while playing back but not while recording) with MameTE BenJos's new
version. And Pat Laffey (who is a stronger voice than my high horse
at Marp now) has recommended, and the rest of the editors agreed, to
discourage use of win37b9. m35tg3 will always be accepted.

<p>

JoustGod: I don't have as much training in encryption as Ben Jos has,
but I was planning on making a secure version of mame and talking
with zwaxy about security issues before Mark even knew inp's weren't
secure. And me nor Ben Jos nor Mark would/should talk publically
about specific things that might go into a secure version of mame to
protect it's own security.

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churritz@cts.com

Chad, you are clued out. It's obvious you didn't even look at the inp
yourself. The encryption method was changed. The problem you are
referring was in tg1, that's why there was a 2nd version. Yes, Ben
Jos was good enough to tell me about it and the first version was
removed.

<p>

I was never "on my high horse". I suggested to Ben Jos many months
ago to come up with a better encryption method. Nothing was done,
since both Ben Jos and I work at our jobs full time. What do you
think this is, the NSA? I looked at the code as time permitted. I
thought about ways to improve it.

<p>

That's about all I have to say about it. It's a part time hobby, and
I allocate my time accordingly.

--
zero1@look.ca

My opinion at this point:
<p>

Chad, you're being a little annoying. Just because win37b9tg2 uses
both encrypted and unencrypted frame info doesn't mean you can fake
the recording. In fact, I'd be a little surprised if it didn't use
the unencrypted data as a check against changes in the encrypted
data. (That's how I'd be doing it... idea for 37final-tg?)

<p>

Worst-case situation: Mark becomes responsible only for secure beta
versions every so often, and Ben Jos makes a new secure final version
every two final versions or so.

<p>

Best-case: Mark and Ben Jos alternate on secure versions.

--
peng@demongate.ath.cx

Actually Chad is right about the encryption, Ben Jos figured it out
easily. I don't have both the encrypted and unencrypted data in the
inp for 37tg2. I had a long talk with Ben Jos about all this, and at
some future time he's going to release the TE version. Everyone is
welcome to use this TE version, even outside of Marp. He wouldn't
commit to a specific date for release, probably some time after there
is a mame37 final.

<p>

I'm grateful for the opportunity to help "pave the way" for a really
secure version of mame for all the players. Personally I doubt
rampant cheating is occuring, but if prizes are being offered then it
makes sense to have a version as secure as possible. I'm definitely
looking forward to Ben Jos' version.

--
zero1@look.ca

No, rampant cheating is probably not happening, but It will be very
nice to know that it isn't easily possible to hack inps. I wish
everyone could see that goal is such a nice thing to work towards and
that's what i'm trying to make it to that point. The
encryption/decrypted data inclusion just scared me (Ben Jos mostly)
and I thought we were going to go through another run around... I am
gratefull for your work Mark and the big issue why better versions
don't come out IS because lack of time able to be spent on this.
Something I'm sure everyone wishes they had more of. Ben Jos
actually said he'd have mameTE done last year, he has a lot of it
done but still needs to find that extra smidgeon of time to finish it
off. we're all looking forward to that, but we'll of course have to
wait, what's that saying "we'll sell no whine untill it's time..."
heh. thanks for tg2.

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churritz@cts.com