Tourney 5 - Debate with these games...

Gameboy9 · Post by **Gameboy9** » Fri Sep 01, 2000 12:30 pm

1. Renegade(bootleg)


2. Tempest



3. Moon Patrol



4. New Rally X



5. WindJammers



6. Metal Slug



7. Meikyu Jima



8. Elevator Action



9. Frezee



10. Kangaroo



11. The Pit



12. Vulgus



13. Xybots



14. Twinkle Star Sprites



15. Teddyboy Blues



16. Mikie(Japanese)



17. Tag Team Wrestling



18. Asteroids Deluxe



19. Track & Field



20. Super Cobra



21. Ghosts N' Goblins



22. Wonderboy



23. Metro Cross



24. Ping Pong



25. Rainbow Islands



26. Donkey Kong Jr.



27. Super Basketball



28. Tiger Heli



29. Sega Tetris



30. Time Pilot 84



Majority rules with good reasons to toss games out(one game / game type is the rule FYI) GB9

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

Barry Rodewald · Post by **Barry Rodewald** » Fri Sep 01, 2000 12:30 pm

1) Renegade
Cool, sounds fine to me.



2) Tempest
Argh! An old game I'm no good at... Oh well, okay I guess...



3) Moon Patrol
Another old game I'm no good that, but at least this one is
enjoyable.



4) New Rally X
What? Again? After Rally X in T4? Nope, throw this one out...



5) WindJammers
Don't know this game at all - not too large a download I hope...



6) Metal Slug
Now I'm pretty sure that this is a large download... Spare a
thought for us 33.6K modem users... For me this one is out...



7) Meikyu Jima
Never heard of it...

Elevator Action
Yes! Something I am okay at!



9) Freeze
Don't know the game...



10) Kangaroo
Oh, god no... I was only good at the Atari 2600 version of
this...



11) The Pit
Don't know the game...



12) Vulgus
(Strives desparately to get TSS into T5...) Um, shooter, too
much like Tempest?



13) Xybots
Don't know this too well, okay I guess...



14) Twinkle Star Sprites
Yes! Please!!!



15) Teddyboy Blues
Don't like this much myself, but whatever...



That should be enough to get 8 from...

--
bsr@hn.pl.net

Takuma Sakazaki · Post by **Takuma Sakazaki** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

1. Renegade(bootleg) <-- I used to like Renegade on NES, never played
arcade version though



2. Tempest <-- Never played it.



3. Moon Patrol <-- Quite good for an oldie



4. New Rally X <-- Well, I don't know the game.



5. WindJammers <-- A cool NeoGeo game. Count that in.



6. Metal Slug <-- Definitely yes! The coolest shooter in MAME in my
opinion...



7. Meikyu Jima <-- Don't know this too.



8. Elevator Action <-- Count that in! A cool game!



9. Frezee <-- Also don't know this one... darn it, I guess I should
play something other than Neo-Geo once in a while

10. Kangaroo <-- Another one I don't know...



11. The Pit



12. Vulgus



13. Xybots



14. Twinkle Star Sprites



15. Teddyboy Blues



16. Mikie(Japanese)



17. Tag Team Wrestling



18. Asteroids Deluxe



19. Track & Field



20. Super Cobra



21. Ghosts N' Goblins



22. Wonderboy



23. Metro Cross



24. Ping Pong



25. Rainbow Islands



26. Donkey Kong Jr.



27. Super Basketball



28. Tiger Heli



29. Sega Tetris



30. Time Pilot 84

--
takuma683@yahoo.com

Ben Jos Walbeehm · Post by **Ben Jos Walbeehm** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

Hmm... looks like it's starting again...


As far as I know, these discussions are NOT meant to throw out games
that people don't like, but to raise more or less "objective"
objections against games. "I don't like this game" does not sound
objective to me. Neither does "I love this game" sound like a good
enough reason to keep a game.



Objective could mean: Games that don't run at an acceptable speed
without a ridiculous frameskip for most people. Or games that are too
much like other games already in the tournament (or within the same
genre) or that were in a recent tournament. It is also meant to
identify things that could be disallowed BEFORE the tournament
actually starts. Like leeching. And in this respect, I'd like to say
that Kangaroo won't be any fun if leeching is allowed. Although you
can't leech forever, you can sacrifice several lives (and score enough
to get at least a few of those back) to get a pretty nice score. And
you don't even have to get past the second screen to do it. If
Kangaroo makes it in, I'd like to see some rule against this. After
all, one of the tournament rules says people are supposed to try to
make progress. I'd much rather see someone get to L-05 on this game
and score only 60,000 than to get to L-03 and score 200,000. L-05
requires a lot more skill... . And it's also meant to discuss
settings. Traditionally, the MARP tournaments have tried to avoid
games becoming marathons, and, in a lot of cases, carefully choosing
difficulty settings and number of lives can accomplish this.



The only other game I am familiar with in the first 18 or so is
Elevator Action. That game is quite boring on Easiest, or Easier, or
Easy difficulty, but becomes a lot more interesting on TG (medium
difficulty) settings. I hope that TG settings will be decided on for
this one. Although I admit that this might be subjective. Either way,
even on Easiest, this game can't really be marathoned, so with
everything else being equal, we might as well choose TG settings, as
we've always had a preference of doing.



Cheers,
Ben Jos.

--
walbeehm@walbeehm.com

JSW · Post by **JSW** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

I'm cool with all the games except these:


Tempest - Mostly for control issues. Unfair to those w/o analog
controllers (majority of MARP'ers I'd presume)



New Rally X - Rally X was in the last tourney, do we really want to
play another Rally X game so soon? I definitely don't!



Track n Field - Wasn't this banned from all tourneys at MARP?



Ghosts n Goblins - Too many leeching opportunities. If this gets in,
rules will have to be made about not leeching, which if not enforced
properly will ultimately lead to accusations, bannings, arguments
etc.. not worth it IMHO.

--
usagi@dingoblue.net.au

Jason "Jazz" Hoseason · Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

My initial thought is "please no more rally x". I loved this game in
the arcades but after the number of times I played it in t-4 I think
this should be removed from the list. No comment on the other issues
raised above until I have looked at the games. Overall it seems to
be a good mix of game types

--
jhjazzman@hotmail.com

Gameboy9 · Post by **Gameboy9** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

Yes BenJos - only objective causes will be accepted in this
tournament as with all the other tournaments that have gone under
this type of rule(3 and 4). I don't want to play this game is
definatly NOT a good reason I'm sorry to say...



1. Renegade - "Final Fight" Fighter



2. Tempest - 3D Shooter - I could probably use a mouse to get around
in this game... I'll have to look at that one...



3. Moon Patrol - Horizontal Shooter I guess

4. New Rally X - Maze - I gotta agree with a number of people - We
had Rally X last time... at least we can wait one tourney before we
can send this game in...



5. WindJammers - Sports



6. Metal Slug - Some form of shooter - but I still say in...



7. Meikyu Jima - This is a MAME 36 game or higher

8. Elevator Action - Maybe something harder is in order since a
number of people had to deal with this in Deca 2000...



9. Freeze - I wonder if it's game type is similar to elevator
action...



10. Kangaroo - I think this is OK - just remember the judges ain't
gonna allow leeching!

11. The Pit - Something like dig dug? Regardless... lucky you
Steve...



12. Vulgus - Vertical Shooter



13. Xybots - wouldn't this clash with tempest being a 3D shooter?



14. Twinkle Star Sprites - Vertical Shooter gosh darn it...



15. Teddyboy Blues - something in relation to kangaroo or elevator
action...



16. Mikie - I don't see a japanese set - so we'd be playing the
original if this got in...



17. Tag Team Wrestling - Would this be out because of windjammers?



18. Asteroids Deluxe - Some form of shooter...



19. Track & Field - This we rejected in T2 because of major
controversy. We MIGHT allow it in T5 because we have tools to figure
this stuff out now...



20. Super Cobra - Horz. Shooter - out because of moon patrol



21. Ghosts N' Goblins - Probably similar to elevator action and the
like



22. Wonderboy - Similar to Ghosts N' Goblins?



23. Metro Cross - I thought this was a MAME 36 game...



24. Ping Pong - Out because of windjammers?



25. Rainbow Islands - Similar to ghosts n' goblins for sure!



26. Donkey Kong Jr. - I don't know what to classify that one



27. Super Basketball - out because of windjammers?



28. Tiger Heli - Out because of vulgus



29. Sega Tetris - Puzzle Game

30. Time Pilot 84 - That's probably out because of something...
asteroids deluxe at least!

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

Giovanni "Gby" solinas · Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

1. Renegade(bootleg *** Yes, game is fun


2. Tempest *** Never played seriously, but it seem too long to me for
a tournament



3. Moon Patrol *** Yes, old and fun



4. New Rally X *** No, Rally X was in past tournament and the games
are too similar



5. WindJammers *** No, the game is more difficul using a keyboard



6. Metal Slug *** Yes, one of the best Neogeo games, and work very
fine on a p200 without sound using mame36



7. Meikyu Jima *** Never Played



8. Elevator Action *** Yes, Old and Fun



9. Frezee *** Never Played



10. Kangaroo *** No opinion for now



11. The Pit *** No opinion for now



12. Vulgus *** No opinion for now



13. Xybots *** No opinion for now



14. Twinkle Star Sprites *** Yes, grat neogeo game



15. Teddyboy Blues *** No opinion for now



16. Mikie(Japanese)*** Yes, fun game



17. Tag Team Wrestling *** No opinion for now



18. Asteroids Deluxe *** I hate asterois game, but i thing it's ok
for a tournament (



19. Track & Field *** No, too advantage with joystick



20. Super Cobra *** No opinion for now



21. Ghosts N' Goblins *** Yes, fun game



22. Wonderboy *** Noooooo, too damn good players at it



23. Metro Cross *** No opinion for now



24. Ping Pong *** No opinion for now



25. Rainbow Islands *** Great game, but too long (no opinion for now)



26. Donkey Kong Jr. *** Yes



27. Super Basketball *** No opinion



28. Tiger Heli *** Yes



29. Sega Tetris *** Ugly game, atetris or nothing

30. Time Pilot 84 *** No opinion



Once again, sorry for my bad english

--
tharon@tiscalinet.it

J.D. Lowe · Post by **J.D. Lowe** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

2. Tempest - Control issues, mainly. No big problem, but it's
something to look for.



4. New Rally X - after having Rally X in the last tourny, I think we
need a break; however, this is just an opinion, so I don't think it
has much merit

8. Elevator Action - Since Deca2000 ended slightly recently, I'd be
worried if people are tired of this game, like Rally X.



10. Kangaroo - Leechfest. Keep an eye out.



18. Asteroids Deluxe - Saucer hunting; keep your eyes peeled again.



21. Ghosts N' Goblins - possible leechfest.



30. Time Pilot 84 - is it possible to leech on this game as well? I
don't know

The other games on the list I'm not too familiar with. However, may
I plead to the court that you take into consideration the file sizes,
like Barry said. Neo Geo games aren't exactly healthy for my 56k
modem. Also, as BenJos mentioned, also consider computer speeds,
framerates, etc. Thank you, your honor, no further questions.
*Insert name here*, your witness.



Sincerely,



J.D. Lowe

--
jedidrunkenllama@hotmail.com

Giovanni "Gby" solinas · Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

JD, Mslug in mame has 100% on a pentium 200 without sound (with sound
on a p300) using the latest stable version of mame (m36).
The game is 12meg, but it worth the download!

--
tharon@tiscalinet.it

david oliver · Post by **david oliver** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

1) renegade - beat em' up - ok


2) tempest - 3d shooter - control issues aren't THAT bad; i have a
trackball and the game plays just fine. besides i voted it so i say
keep it



3) moon patrol - horiz shooter - ok



4) new rally x - maze - though i didnt participate in T4, i can tell
how much of you don't want this game due to rally x in T4, so its out



5) windjammers - sports - never played it but i guess its fine with
me; ok



6) metal slug - horiz shooter/platformer - definitely ok, this game
kicks too much ass

7) meikyu jima - puzzle? - man i love this game...if it's not in .35
maybe we can allow .36 just for this game? if so then another definite
ok

elevator action - misc - no opinion yet; probably not ok because it
was in deca2k; not entirely clear of genre



9) freeze - misc - never played it but i guess its ok



10) kangaroo - platform - ok i guess, out if conflicts with metal
slug. consider possible leeching



11) the pit - never played it



12) vulgus - some kind of space shooter - ok



13) xybots - 3d shooter - conflicts with tempest; dont like this game
too much anyway



14) twinkle star sprites - puzzle/shooter - seems unique enough and i
love this game too; ok



15) teddyboy blues - platform - conflicts with metal slug and kangaroo



16) mikie - misc - no opinion, maybe ok



17) tag team wrestling - sports - conflicts with windjammers



18) asteroids deluxe - conflicts with vulgus, possible leeching



19) track & field - sports - i SO suck at this...conflicts with
windjammers anyway



20) super cobra - shooter - conflicts with vulgus



21) ghosts & goblins - platform/shooter - just give me 1 reason why
this should be included...it was in T3, way too easy to leech and
conflicts with metal slug



22) wonderboy - platform - no opinion, i personally hate the controls
when jumping, maybe out



23) metro cross - race - ok



24) ping pong - sports - conflicts with windjammers



25) rainbow islands - platform - dammit, conflicts with metal slug

i like both games but metal slug showed up 1st - i hate to say this
but its out



26) dk jr. - platform - conflicts with metal slug



27) super basketball - sports - conflicts with windjammers



28) tiger heli - vert shooter - damn vulgus...out



29) sega tetris - puzzle - conflicts with meikyu jima and partially
with twinkle star sprites; atari version is far superior anyway



30) time pilot 84 - shooter - conflicts with vulgus



---



games ok'ed are: renegade, tempest, moon patrol, windjammers, metal
slug, freeze, vulgus, twinkle star sprites, metro cross



games maybed are: kangaroo (this isn't a shooter/platform so i guess
keep it), mikie (it seems unique enough though)



windjammers is actually in a grey area for me - if the scoring is too
low (which means lots of ties) then replace with tag team wrestling

--
davedude1414@yahoo.com

jbd · Post by **jbd** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

To clarify on Asteroids Deluxe: it is impossible to leech. In fact,
Asteroids Deluxe was the first game deisgned to prevent leeching. The
programmers wanted revenge on all the people who saucer hunted in
Asteroids.



The saucers intentionally shoot at rocks, so you can't just leave
rocks hanging for hours on end while you kill saucers.



Having said all that, I'll doubt we will make it that far down the
list.

--
jdyer41@aol.com

jbd · Post by **jbd** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

Anyway, here's my list with 8...no, I didn't try to come up with a
reason to include Xybots...I think it's different from Vulgus and
Tempest, but someone having all 3 in T5 would be 'too many shooters',
even if they are all different styles.



*1. Renegade(bootleg)



Specifically, Nekketsu Koauha Kunio-Kun (Japan Bootleg).
I'll call this one a 'fighter.'



*2. Tempest



I did a quick control test, seems to be ok. Better than
Arkanoid, at least. I used to play this alot using
Microsoft Arcade with a mouse.



*3. Moon Patrol



Woohoo!



4. New Rally X



Rally-X is the Great Satan. It must be destroyed.



Also, we played it last time

*5. WindJammers



Sports. The low-scoring objections might be justified, but
I'll let people who know the game better debate that.



*6. Metal Slug



It's 13 MB. This is smaller than Samurai Shodown II
which Barry voted for.

7. Meikyu Jima



Not in MAME 35. D'oh! Scrap Vulgus at the end, I guess, if we get a
new TG version of MAME.



*8. Elevator Action



Objections to it being in Deca2000 are silly considering we
had Bobble Bobble while Deca2000 was still in progress.



9. Freeze



Platformer. [Well, in any case, we do have Metal Slug AND Elevator
Action.]



10. Kangaroo



Platformer. [Same reason.]



*11. The Pit



Sort of 'maze game', I guess. Only the digging seems like Dig Dug.



*12. Vulgus



Shooter.



(if there's need for another, I have the next on my list
as being fine is Mikie (Japanese).)

--
jdyer41@aol.com

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

1. Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-Kun - Beat-em-up. Don't see any problems with
this one.



2. Tempest - it seems like every tourney has to have a game where
analog control is going to screw people up (Discs of Tron, Crystal
Castles, Marble Madness, Arkanoid II)... why should this tourney be
any exception? ;P



3. Moon Patrol - more of a shooter than a platformer IMO.



4. New Rally-X - No, no, no, no, no, for the love of God,
NOOOOOOOO!!!!



5. Windjammers - Sports. I ponder whether or not this game would be
good for tourney play, since the CPU AI gets downright brutal in later
stages and beating them is nothing more than luck. This game has
always been a better Vs. game than a CPU game. Hmm...



6. Metal Slug - Platformer. I would REALLY like to see this get in.

As Jason noted, complaining about the game's 13-meg size isn't
justified when you voted for a 14-meg game, Barry.

besides,
you've got a month to get it off mame.dk or whereever. Oh yeah,
complaining about Neo-Geo speed seems a bit silly to me now, as we
have had Neo-Geo games in past tourneys (even T1 had Money Puzzle
Exchanger and 2020 Super Baseball). If RAM is a problem, play it
without sound.



7. Meikyu Jima - not in mame35.



8. Elevator Action - Platformer... is this different enough to warrant
including it when we already have Metal Slug?



9. Freeze - seems to be a strange sort of platformer, should be out.



10. Kangaroo - another platformer. If it was included something would
have to be done about the leeching, because I know one person who
would abuse that to its fullest extent ;P (K*** L****)



11. The Pit - seems like a maze game, seems like crap. Which means
it'll probably get in. ;(



12. Vulgus - vertical shooter... Moon Patrol's already a horizontal
shooter, should it be included? I'm leaning towards no...



13. Xybots - very unique 3D game. Personally I think it plays nothing
like Tempest. Hell, the argument could be made that it's a 3D maze
game ;P



14. Twinkle Star Sprites - shooter, out...



15. Teddyboy Blues - platformer, out...



16. Mikie (Japanese) - another game that's hard to classify into a
genre, unique enough to warrant inclusion. And it seems to me that the
Japanese romset IS supported in m35tg3, who said it wasn't?



That's enough, I think 8 games can be pulled from there...

--
lordbbh@aol.com

Barry Rodewald · Post by **Barry Rodewald** » Sat Sep 02, 2000 12:30 pm

Just to clear it up, when I posted that I didn't know how large Metal
Slug was. For some reason, I had a feeling it was towards 25-30MB...
As for SS2, I already had it, and don't need to download it... sorta
makes things easier...

--
bsr@hn.pl.net