forums.marpirc.net

Here are the results of the randomizer. Any games with a * on it were requested if MAME 36 TG came out. I will also give my OPINION on each game. Yeah. You get to debate which games should be in or out
<p>

Before I begin, I swear that I only used the randomizer once.(there's a reason I said that.)

<p>

What I did was mix in the MAME 35s and the MAME 36s and listed the top 39.

<p>

*1. Pole Position - Racing - If MAME 36 TG comes out - fine.

<p>

2. Pnickies(that's why I said that) - Puzzle - I don't think the slow computer thing is a problem - might have to use sound off though.

<p>

*3. Street Fighter II - Fighter - now Barry requested this to be in if MAME 36 was released... although it can be played on MAME 35 - should be consider that to be a game if MAME 36 is out or not? I have no opinion on this as of yet.

<p>

4. Arkanoid II - Breakout - fine.

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5. Green Beret - Action Shooter - fine.

<p>

6. Gaplus - Vertical Shooter - fine.

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7. Sega Ninja - ? - fine unless there's a repeat somewhere

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8. 1943 KAI - Vertical Shooter - dog gone it - it violates the 1 game / type rule - so I have to give the opinion to throw it out

<p>

9. Solar Fox - ??????

<p>

10. GunSmoke - ??????

<p>

11. Bubble Bobble - Platform I guess - fine.

<p>

12. Ghosts N' Goblins - Platform - Do you want more ghosts? - and I think it's also a repeat.

<p>

13. Galaxian - Vertical Shooter - out on 1 game / type

<p>

14. Karate Champ - ??????

<p>

15. Magic Sword - Action Fighter I think... fine?

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16. Rally X - Maze/Collect Em' Up - fine(unless one of those ???? is otherwise)

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17. Klax - Puzzle - out cause of pnickies

<p>

18. Tag Team - Sports - fine unless one of the above takes a similar type

<p>

19. Pang - ??????

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20. Star Wars - 3D Shooter - fine

<p>

21. Pitfall II - platform I think - and therefore out.

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22. Championship Sprint - another questionable one - are we declaring this a clone even though it's an original and has different tracks?

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23. Pengo - ??????

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24. Wonderboy III - ??????

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25. Moon Patrol - ??????

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26. WindJammers - Sports - out due to Tag Team

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27. Rainbow Islands - Platform - out

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28. Super Breakout - Breakout - out

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29. Bank Panic - ??????

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30. Wonderboy - Platform - out

<p>

All of these are opinions of mine - but your opinion counts as much as mine. Looking forward to an exciting debate. Debate closes on May 10, 2000 at 2359 GMT.

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

I'll fill in the blanks for you.
<p>

Solar Fox is a maze-type.

<p>

Sega Ninja is a vertical scrolling shooter, though a loose one at
that.

<p>

Gunsmoke is an old-west vertical scrolling shooter.

<p>

Karate Champ is a static-screen fighter.

<p>

Magic Sword is a side-scrolling action/RPG.

<p>

Pang is...well, come on Gameboy, you played one of its descendants in
T1.

<p>

Pengo is a maze-type, although a fairly unique one.
Wonder Boy III is a side-scrolling action game.

<p>

Moon Patrol is...how old are you? didn't you at least have an Atari
2600?

<p>

Bank Panic is a first person shooter.

<p>

---

<p>

Now, for the breakdown.

<p>

I would throw 8 and 10 for sure. Both are essentially 6 or 7, but 6
and 7 themselves are different enough to do justice to the genre
(kinda like the difference is game between BBH and BeeJay.

<p>

I would be concerned about 5. I think too many people will complete
it. Aside form that tho', it's good to go.

<p>

I would have to say that both Bubble Bobble and GnG are allowed in the
tournament, as they are not the same game type. There exists at
least the same difference between these two games as between Sega
Ninja and Gaplus, if not more.

<p>

That would be my opinion. And damn myself for saying it, because I
actually kinda like the selection, aside from GnG. Maybe we can chuck
it under the Same Game in 2 consecutive tourneys rule. Didn't
something like this come up for Galaga. That would then leave us with
Karate Champ or Magic Sword, both of which are good picks, and Magic
Sword is an excellent tournament game: well-designed and tough to beat
on one quarter (heaven knows I've never come anywhere close).

<p>

Greetings programs,
Q.T.Quazar

--
qan@home.com

Regarding SF2...wasn't it requested so that it would be Street Fighter
Zero if MAME 36, Street Fighter II if MAME 35?

<p>

In any case, I might object to this game due to the possibility of
beating the game with 'cheesy' moves. (Say, throwing a fireball
repeatedly -- a little variance with some of the bosses but that's
about all that's required.) I could get my roommate to make a
recording with Ken if you need a demonstration.

<p>

Pole Position might have controller issues.

<p>

GnG I would consider out due to the other GnG in T3.

<p>

I need to go play some of the rest of the games before I form opinions
on them.

--
jdyer@u.arizona.edu

SF2... I did request SF2 for MAME 0.36, as Street Fighter Zero/Alpha
was removed just prior to MAME 0.36. It was in MAME 0.35, so I guess
it could be used then. I'm happy with SF2 if SFZ if not used for
whatever reason.

--
bsr@hn.pl.net

Wasn't there a problem with SFZero being the console version and not
an arcade game? I believe that that is why it was removed (actually,
it isn't removed, it's just commented out)

<p>

If so, I don't see how there's any way we can allow it in the
tournament.

<p>

Q.T.Quazar

--
qan@home.com

Well... I WOULD say to think in terms of MAME 35 - in other words, if
Street Fighter Zero was in there, it'd be accepted.

<p>

However, since it did not reach the randomizer at all, we can't allow
Street Fighter Zero into the tournament. What IS debatable is should
we allow Street Fighter II in the tournament if we used MAME 35(and
it works in MAME 35) when the person intended it as a MAME 36 vote.

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

Ok, my opinion is that I would like SF2 used if for some reason SFZ
is not allowed. That's my stance, SF2 if SF Zero is not allowed.

<p>

On another note, if Bubble Bobble is in, then what sort of rules are
to be used for it? Allow Power Up, Original, and Super codes?
Anything else?

--
bsr@hn.pl.net

1. Pole Position - I sorta hope there is no m36tg because I've
never been able to use any sort of controls well for this game on
MAME. Some people have obviously adapted though, as evidenced by the
recordings already up.

<p>

2. Pnickies - if we allowed Ghouls 'n Ghosts into the last one, I
don't think speed will be an issue. Good tournament game.

<p>

3. SF2 - hoo boy... I REALLY hope this is allowed, as all my time
battling with Dudu over those romsets won't have gone to waste
Maybe I *should* hope for a 0.36 TGMAME...

<p>

4. Arkanoid II - another game I'll have control problems with, but oh
well. Donut or Steve Krogman (if he plays) will end up 0wning most of
our asses.

<p>

5. Green Beret - doesn't the game loop after completion? I see no
problem with it. And wouldn't it be classified as a platformer? It's
not really an "action shooter" because you have to pick up the special
weapons (with limited uses) to fire, your main weapon is a knife.

<p>

6. Gaplus - I think the current high scorer on this game quit his
recording early, so someone who knows the game well is going to end up
scoring much higher than the rest. And possibly lead to some
marathons...

<p>

7. Sega Ninja - should be allowed, because I voted on it dammit!
seriously, I don't consider it the same type of game as Gaplus. You're
not stuck on one screen, and you're not forced to scroll the screen at
all times (on most stages anyway... there are a few exceptions, but
you still have full 8-way firing unlike the vertical-only fire on
Gaplus). The same strategies definitely do not apply to both games.

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8. 1943 KAI - now this is more like Gaplus than Sega Ninja... probably
won't make it

<p>

9. Solar Fox - maze game. Hoo boy. guess there's no getting around
this one

<p>

10. Gunsmoke - another shooter. Nope. (too bad, because I like the
game)

<p>

11. Bubble Bobble - is this different enough to warrant including it
along with Green Beret? and haven't the Deca 2K players had enough of
this game? I WOULD rather see it included over...

<p>

12. Ghosts 'n Goblins - please no more...

<p>

13. Galaxian - out

<p>

14. Karate Champ - well, if SF2 doesn't make it in, I don't see a
problem with it. Except that recordings might be kinda boring to
watch. Just my opinion though

<p>

15. Magic Sword - another platformer, probably shouldn't be allowed.

<p>

16. Rally-X - out because of Solar Fox (I will kill myself if we have
TWO maze games in one tourney again)

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17. Klax - out

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18. Tag Team - not familiar with this at all... if it's sports, then I
guess it's fine.

<p>

19. Pang - well, we already played Pang 3 panic mode in T1, but
playing regular mode in part 1 would be different. Nothing else in thr
tourney like it anyway.

<p>

20. Star Wars - different enough from the other "shooters" to include
it...

<p>

I don't think anything past this point will end up making it in, so
I'll wrap this up. So far, the gamelist looks to be more to my liking
than the ones in the previous three tourneys (BenJos: PLEASE don't
quote me on this two months from now! )

<p>


-BBH

--
lordbbh@aol.com

*1. Pole Position
<p>

Control issues here...anyone else want to weigh in?

<p>

2. Pnickies

<p>

No objection. Well, except watching the high recordings
makes me dizzy.

<p>

*3. Street Fighter II

<p>

It would be justified to pick this if MAME 35 is used,
although my earlier objection stands. It still might be possible
to set some ground rules to prevent cheesy play.

<p>

4. Arkanoid II

<p>

I *do* have control issues here. Seems like you need
a trackball on this one. Plus I find MAME unresponsive
to analog input with this sort of game. (I still use
Microsoft Arcade to play Missile Command with.)

<p>

5. Green Beret

<p>

Probably fine, except:
There's the possibility of leeching on this one since there is
no time limit. If you hang out in one area, however, there
start to be harder enemies which I think should offset the leeching
problem. Still, there may be a pattern to make leeching work.
Any experts want to testify?

<p>

6. Gaplus

<p>

There are 8 difficulty levels and adjustable extra lives,
surely there is some sort of setting that avoids
marathons. Anyone know what the TG settings are for this
one?

<p>

7. Sega Ninja

<p>

No objection. Absolutely nothing like Gaplus...being a little
paranoid, BBH?

<p>

8. 1943 KAI

<p>

Out due to duplication.

<p>

9. Solar Fox

<p>

No objection.

<p>

10. GunSmoke

<p>

Also a duplicate.

<p>

11. Bubble Bobble

<p>

No objection.

<p>

12. Ghosts N' Goblins

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I would consider the T3 one to be too similar.

<p>

13. Galaxian

<p>

Duplication.

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14. Karate Champ

<p>

There could exist cheesy possibilities here as well, although
I don't know the game that well.
Also, duplication of SF2.

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15. Magic Sword

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Out if Green Beret is in. Otherwise no objection, except often I
see my health reducing yet I don't see anything hit me at the time. :/

<p>

16. Rally X

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Duplicate.

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17. Klax

<p>

Duplicate.

<p>

18. Tag Team

<p>

I can't say much about this one, even after trying it, but
it seems like there is no objection.

<p>

19. Pang

<p>

No objection, and probably BBH's suggestion is good.

<p>

20. Star Wars

<p>

A little bit of control problems here, but doable.

<p>

21. Pitfall II

<p>

Duplicate.

<p>

22. Championship Sprint

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I wouldn't call "different tracks" to be different enough.

<p>

23. Pengo

<p>

No objection.

<p>

24. Wonderboy III

<p>

Duplicate.

<p>

25. Moon Patrol

<p>

No objection.

--
jdyer@u.arizona.edu

1. Pole Position - control issues - although I've manged to play it
(badly), it certainly doesn't lend itself towards keyboard or
joystick control.

<p>

2. Pnickies - Puzzle - no problem

<p>

3. Street Fighter II - Fighter - repetitive moves to complete levels
could lead to severe boredom

<p>

4. Arkanoid II - Breakout - control issues - best played with a
spinner - almost playable with the mouse but certainly not with the
keyboard.

<p>

5. Green Beret - Platform - no problem unless you can leech. Hard
setting preferable.

<p>

6. Gaplus - Vertical Shooter - no problem

<p>

7. Sega Ninja - ? - no idea - if it's platform it's out.

<p>

8. 1943 KAI - Vertical Shooter - duplicate with Gaplus

<p>

9. Solar Fox - ?????? - no idea (Maze?) - if it's maze then no
problem - gotta have a maze game in each tourney of course

<p>

10. GunSmoke - ?????? - no idea

<p>

11. Bubble Bobble - Platform I guess - Different enough game from
Green Beret which is more of a platform shoot em up, whereas Bubble
Bobble is a static screen traditional platformer. Do we allow
powerups to start the game?

<p>

12. Ghosts N' Goblins - Platform - nooooooooooooooooo! T3 repeated -
nopt just similar - it's virtually the same game!

<p>

13. Galaxian - Vertical Shooter - duplicate

<p>

14. Karate Champ - Fighter - repetitive move syndrome abounds once
more!! Duck & punch ad infinitum.

<p>

15. Magic Sword - no idea.

<p>

16. Rally X - Maze/Collect Em' Up - duplicate if Solar Fox is maze.

<p>

17. Klax - Puzzle - duplicate.

<p>

18. Tag Team - Sports - no problem

<p>

19. Pang - shoot em up/puzzle - no problem

<p>

20. Star Wars - 3D Shooter - no problem

<p>

21. Pitfall II - platform - duplicate

<p>

22. Championship Sprint - Tourney duplicate

<p>

23. Pengo - Maze - duplicate

<p>

24. Wonderboy III - platform - duplicate

<p>

25. Moon Patrol - shoot em up - duplicate

<p>

26. WindJammers - Sports - duplicate

<p>

27. Rainbow Islands - Platform - duplicate

<p>

28. Super Breakout - Breakout - duplicate

<p>

29. Bank Panic - uniqie style - no problem

<p>

30. Wonderboy - Platform - amazing duplicate with 24

<p>

Varied enough - I might even last the course this time, providing all
settings discourage marathon games - amidar worked well last time for
example.

--
crash@tcp.co.uk

After reading the posts about the games i feel that there are a few
point i would like to point out...

<p>

1 Ghosts4n Goblins is NOT the same game as T3 Ghouls4n Ghosts...
Gng is easier in some ways and are (in my opinion) a better game
than ghouls.. But gng is NOT easy to complete! Much harder than than
it seems...
And what4s wrong with playing the original after playing the sequel?
(and of course i4m not saying this cause i have the first places on
gng at this moment hehe)
Of course we have the "leeching" in gng to discuss but as long as you
follow Alex path with "1.20 min of perm. leeching" it is ok for me!

<p>



<p>

2. About Moon patrol and Gunsmoke: Moon Patrol not a game to spoil
i think cause i4ve never any game like that before(maybe silworm in
some ways..) It is a one of a kind game in my opinion!
As for Gunsmoke I have seen all kind of shooters and they are
almost the same like 1942 1943 etc..(but they are great games of
course!)But gunsmoke is an odd shooter using three buttons to shoot
and it is not an ordinary space-flying-kill-10-ships-in-a-row-to-get-
more-powerup-game....

<p>

just my to cents anyway...

<p>

Cheers

<p>

QRS

--
qrs@telia.com

Ghosts 'n' Goblins = G 'n' G
<p>

Ghouls 'n' Ghosts = G 'n' G

<p>

= same game hehe

<p>

They're as similar as the two Super Sprint games imo.

<p>

Crash.

--
crash@tcp.co.uk

Ok Crash! the way you put it i can4t do anything else than agree with
you! *grin*

<p>

QRS

--
qrs@telia.com

I don't know all these games, but here goes nothing.
<p>

seganinja-gunsmoke: think they're the same type of game(except
seganinja might suck more)
gaplus: I think galaga was at T1
pang: T1?
What's wrong with pole controls? I play it with trackball.

<p>

streetfighter-kchamp: the same gametype I guess.

<p>

Which version of Karate Champ is this, kchamp or kchampvs? Kchampvs
has an ending, but there are certain allmost idiotproof patterns
beating your opponent. Allthough you gain more points by not using
those patterns for about first 10 levels, and there are those
bulltests etc. For the remaining levels you need knowledge of tactics
(Which I wont tell you, unless you can figure out them by watching my
inps) and some timing to use them.

<p>

Kchamp has little more than 10 levels of real gameplay. After those
levels it's possible to play the game endlessly using tactics that I
invented myself There's some timing involved though, and it's not
easy to get high enough(levelvise) to use those tactics. I really
don't want to see anybody break my score using my own innovations,
since when you learn the tactic, its only matter of stamina for
getting a high score on this.

<p>

Personally I hate streetfighter

<p>

Ghostandbatsandshit: Wasn't this just on previous tournament

<p>

Otherwise in my opinion there should be a rule that allows to dump
games only because they're bad enough and people don't want to play
them!!! - "Xenophobe rule"

--
tiihoto@hotmail.com

Yes, I know long time no type, but here is a weigh in with
the "randomizer" (no harm or foul meant with "")

<p>

*1. Pole Position - Racing - If MAME 36 TG comes out - fine.
Pole Position is okay with keyboard, when you get used to it, which
would make it a good tourney game

<p>

2. Pnickies(that's why I said that) - Puzzle - I don't think the slow
computer thing is a problem - might have to use sound off though.

<p>

Pnickies is G'bs game, but it's clean of problem.

<p>

*3. Street Fighter II - Fighter - now Barry requested this to be in
if MAME 36 was released... although it can be played on MAME 35 -
should be consider that to be a game if MAME 36 is out or not? I have
no opinion on this as of yet.

<p>

Two ideas here, one speed might be an issue if we are still caring
about speed issues. Other than that, I'll address the other one later.

<p>

4. Arkanoid II - Breakout - fine.

<p>

What keyboard problems, I can get vails (or whatever it's called)
moving as fast as I want it to, you just have to know how to kick up
the pace.

<p>

5. Green Beret - Action Shooter - fine.

<p>

Personally, this is the standard side scroller, easy as pie, and as
such can be leeched. You thought GNG was bad, I've seen a leecher
play this one for hours on one life at one spot.

<p>

6. Gaplus - Vertical Shooter - fine.

<p>

I want to know where GB comes up with what they are, this is simply a
Galaga style game, which would work in the tourney.

<p>

7. Sega Ninja - ? - fine unless there's a repeat somewhere

<p>

Sega Ninja is more like 1943, which is eliminated below, so it is
gone as well.

<p>

8. 1943 KAI - Vertical Shooter - dog gone it - it violates the 1
game / type rule - so I have to give the opinion to throw it out

<p>

Yes, this one would be the more than one per style rule, which I
didn't like, but that's the rule.

<p>

9. Solar Fox - ??????

<p>

Solar Fox is far enough away from the above to be allowed in the
tourney. I didn't know myself, so I downloaded it and asked around,
and this one could be considered closer to Robby Robo that the games
above.

<p>

10. GunSmoke - ??????

<p>

The oldie is out due to same kind above.

<p>

11. Bubble Bobble - Platform I guess - fine.

<p>

I would have to say out, due to same kind of game. I am comparing
this to platform rule and Solar Fox, take a look yourself.

<p>

12. Ghosts N' Goblins - Platform - Do you want more ghosts? - and I
think it's also a repeat.

<p>

Out - Previous tourney, they are rather the same game, minor
differences in game play that don't warrent both. Kind of like Pac-
Man hearts and Pac-Man. (Okay, maybe not the best to use, since the
maze is different in hearts)

<p>

13. Galaxian - Vertical Shooter - out on 1 game / type

<p>

Can't have gaplus and galaxian, sorry Krogman.

<p>

14. Karate Champ - ??????

<p>

Karate champ is fine, unless SF2 is in. This is like the grand daddy
to SF2, (and the whole genre)

<p>

15. Magic Sword - Action Fighter I think... fine?

<p>

Side Scroller - out

<p>

16. Rally X - Maze/Collect Em' Up - fine(unless one of those ???? is
otherwise)

<p>

Maze game, you are right, this is fine.

<p>

17. Klax - Puzzle - out cause of pnickies

<p>

Klaz waves must wait for another day, even though I consider this one
the more challenging of the 2.

<p>

18. Tag Team - Sports - fine unless one of the above takes a similar
type

<p>

Tag Team is a weak wrestling game, this shouldn't eliminate other
sport titles (if they don't deal with wrestling)

<p>

19. Pang - ??????

<p>

GB, PANG! had it's sequal (in a previous tourney) I wouldn't consider
it out due to previous tourney rule, but out due to Solar Fox style.

<p>

20. Star Wars - 3D Shooter - fine

<p>

Finally one of these makes it in, it's clean.

<p>

21. Pitfall II - platform I think - and therefore out.

<p>

Platform is right and out....

<p>

22. Championship Sprint - another questionable one - are we declaring
this a clone even though it's an original and has different tracks?

<p>

Personally I would consider this on it's merits since it has
different tracks and styles. Since there isn't a racing game, if we
haven't hit 10 yet, it should be in.

<p>

23. Pengo - ??????

<p>

Wierd, but out due to Solar Fox style.

<p>

24. Wonderboy III - ??????

<p>

Side scroller - out (I loved it on the Sega Master System (original))

<p>

25. Moon Patrol - ??????

<p>

Personally I love moon patrol, and it's enough away from Sprint to be
allowed in, again, if we haven't hit 10 yet.

<p>

26. WindJammers - Sports - out due to Tag Team

<p>

No, this is certainly not wrestling, but should be out due to enough
like a side scroller than a sport.

<p>

27. Rainbow Islands - Platform - out

<p>

I'll believe you on this one, didn't look or ask.

<p>

28. Super Breakout - Breakout - out

<p>

True.

<p>

29. Bank Panic - ??????

<p>

Bank Panic, bad guy shoot up, but out.

<p>

30. Wonderboy - Platform - out

<p>

If Wonderboy III is out, the original would be gone as well.

<p>

Okay, that would make this is as the ten list.

<p>

1} Pole Position
2} Pnickies
3} SFII (Unless speed issue Karate Champ would replace if not in,
since Karate Champ is within the 10 pick)
4} Arkanoid II
5} Green Beret
6} Gaplus (that's the name, I probably mispelled it once or twice
during this meesage)
7} Solar Fox
8} Rally X
9} Tag Team
10} Star Wars

--
cparsley1@hotmail.com