forums.marpirc.net

You can debate as many times as you wish until the January 15th, 2359 GMT deadline. Other rules are placed at the proposed debate rules thread.<p>

Randomized games are as follows - along with my initial debate - if any:

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1. Gauntlet II - adventure?

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2. Amidar - Collect em' up

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3. Zero Zone - puzzle - this involves nudity... and I'm quite afraid of the young kids that could be involved... but that's up to the debaters

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4. Burning Rubber - driving

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5. Lady Bug - Collect Em Up

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6. Xenophobe - what type is this?

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7. Marble Madness - maze

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8. Turtles - Collect em' up - out due to two games of same type rule according to me.

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9. 10 yard fight - football

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10. Ghouls N' Ghosts - Platform

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11. Tron - uh... adventure I would guess

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12. Devil Fish... maze I would guess

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13. Ninja Kid II(set 2) - platform I guess

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14. Tempest - shooting?

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15. City Connection - driving

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16. Magic Sword - platform - out due to two game rule

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17. Outzone - ??????

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18. The main event - wrestling

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19. Sega Ninja - ??????

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20. Kangaroo - platform - out due to two game rule

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21. Do Run Run - uh... collect em' up? and therefore out

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22. Snow Bros. - platform - out

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23. Green Beret - platform - out

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24. Mappy - oh... plaform - out

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All that are claimed out are NOT out officially, that's just my opinion.

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I'm interested to see what you think in debate. If you say all are good, then you should say so on the message board.

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Thanks

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oh btw... in case you're wondering... none of my games got in

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

Looks like we are in for a long debate.

--
info@kaupp.cx

Ooops, ignore me. I read 2359 as year instead of time. (I really
should get more sleep on a monday).

--
info@kaupp.cx

In a bit of a rush, I'll get to the rest of the debate later. A couple
quick things though:

<p>

OutZone and Sega Ninja are both vertically-scrolling "human shooters",
a la Ikari Warriors or Time Soldiers. So only one can be included, and
I vote for Sega Ninja

<p>

secondly, what was the number ordering for the games? Gameboy, did you
just number them in the order you'd like to see them in? As an
example, Ghouls 'n Ghosts is a platformer and that was the first one
listed, all the others were marked out. Is this how we're supposed to
post, post the one in the genre we'd like to see most?

<p>

just wonderin how the rest of us should post in this thread

--
lordbbh@aol.com

The games that were posted are in the EXACT order the randomizer gave
me. The higher it is, the more likely that it's in the tournament.
So if every game was accepted, the top ten on that list is what would
be in the tournament. Again, if I said something was out, it is NOT
out - it's just my opinion - that's all. If more than two games of
the same type are in the randomizer, the one with the LOWER level is
out. Course my opinion of types could be much different from anyone
elses...

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

1. Gauntlet II - adventure?
<p>

I'd describe gauntlet as "shoot everything that moves". It's a lot
closer to a game like Robotron 2084 than Tron. I don't think there's
really anything on the list close to it.

<p>


2. Amidar - Collect em' up
5. Lady Bug - Collect Em Up
8. Turtles - Collect em' up - out due to two games of same type rule
according to me.
12. Devil Fish... maze I would guess

<p>

These are all maze games where you walk around more or less trying to
walk over every pathway in the maze. However - none of these 4 games
have similar rules, so I think we could get away with allowing two of
them. The objection I have to Amidar is that the existing scores make
it look marathonable, but that may not be an acceptable basis for
removal seeing as past tournaments have tried to beat the serial
number on Galaga & Gyruss.

<p>


3. Zero Zone - puzzle - this involves nudity... and I'm quite afraid
of the young kids that could be involved... but that's up to the
debaters

<p>

Is there a puzzle game similar enough to use instead? Not like it
matters to me, with my performance on puzzle games so far the
machine'll be adding my clothes to its collection

<p>


4. Burning Rubber - driving
7. Marble Madness - maze

<p>

Marble Madness is a racing game. It either goes with other racing
games (like Super Sprint), or in a class by itself. Not all games
with cars are racing games... anyone got a better description of
Burning Rubber?

<p>


6. Xenophobe - what type is this?

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Games that su-su-su {WHAP} suck! There's a good reason there aren't
any other games like Xenophobe.

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9. 10 yard fight - football

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Yep ... football.

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10. Ghouls N' Ghosts - Platform
13. Ninja Kid II(set 2) - platform I guess
16. Magic Sword - platform - out due to two game rule
23. Green Beret - platform - out

<p>

Yes, these are pretty much in the same class of game. Ghouls N'
Ghosts and Magic Sword are CPS1 games and probably need a decently
powered computer to play in MAME. Either possible set of 2, Ghouls N'
Ghosts & Ninja Kid II, or Ninja Kid II & Green Beret (if we toss cpu
hogs) would be different enough to be ok.

<p>


11. Tron - uh... adventure I would guess
17. Outzone - ??????
19. Sega Ninja - ??????

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Tron either goes here (Due to Grid Bugs & MCP Cone) or by itself. I
don't know anything about Outzone or Sega Ninja, just taking BBH at
face value.

<p>


14. Tempest - shooting?

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I'd group it with Galaga & Gyruss "walk around the bottom & shoot up"
games, but there don't seem to be any others on the list.

<p>


15. City Connection - driving
20. Kangaroo - platform - out due to two game rule
22. Snow Bros. - platform - out
24. Mappy - oh... plaform - out

<p>

These are not "platform" games in the same sense the "run & jump to
the right while you slash/shoot" set is. And, once again, not all
games with cars are driving games! Same "marathon" objection to City
Connection as to Amidar, and same "pick two" comment as on the maze &
side scrollers.

<p>


18. The main event - wrestling

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Well, if 10 Yard Fight counts as football this would have to count as
wrestling.

<p>


21. Do Run Run - uh... collect em' up? and therefore out

<p>

Dig Dug man, Dig Dug yo!

<p>



<p>

Game list based on my classifications without removing any games
except by rule of 2:

<p>

1. Gauntlet II
2. Amidar
3. Zero Zone
4. Burning Rubber
5. Lady Bug
6. Xenophobe
7. Marble Madness
9. 10 Yard Fight
10. Ghouls N' Ghosts
11. Tron

<p>

Which, despite disagreement over what games belong together, is the
same list of 10 games Gameboy came up with. If marathons are bad we'd
switch in Turtles(8) for Amidar, and if the speed on Ghouls N' Ghosts
is a problem switch in Ninja Kid II(13). Marble Madness runs on
similar hardware to Crystal Castles & Super Sprint from T2, so if it
goes for speed reasons the replacement would probably be Tempest (14).

<p>


The randomizer doesn't seem to have done too badly... should be fun.
Aqua

--
aquatarkus@digicron.com

To see how fast the top ten games run, i just try out on a P200 MMX
with no sound & it seems to me that Gauntlet II, Marble Madness &
Ghouls N' Ghosts are a bit slow.

--
blost@flashmail.com

Xenophobe does not suck. =) How come they ported it to so many
systems? It must be popular since they did. =P
I can't endorse it though...it's MY own game. LOL

--
shyboy820@aol.com

I will endorse Burning Rubber though, the Bump 'n' Jump style game.
(since it IS the original version of it. =P) I'd vote for Mad Gear
if it worked in MAME .35, but since it doesn't work...I'll endorse
Burning Rubber instead. =)

--
shyboy820@aol.com

Ok, admittedly my reaction to Xenophobe is based on the NES cart,
which I maxed out the score on quickly enough (with a standard NES
gamepad - no autofire or slow motion) the afternoon I rented it to
take it back the same night.

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I haven't played any version since ... perhaps the arcade isn't the
cakewalk the home cartridge was. From the few times I actually paid
attention to the arcade version beforehand it looked like a pretty
good conversion though.

<p>

Aqua

--
aquatarkus@digicron.com

As blost stated some of the games run a bit sluggish on a P200. Do we
know what CPU speed is required for these games to not run sluggish?

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As I asked awhile back, whats the target CPU speed for the tournament
games?

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BTQ: Is TGmame required for T3? I thought I read that it was. If so,
is it a MSDOS compiled binary only?

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/me is still lacking sleep.

--
info@kaupp.cx

These are only my opinions...
<p>

1. Gauntlet II
Number one choice - no problems here.

<p>

2. Amidar
Pacman style game - too easy to marathon - see MARP records.

<p>

3. Zero Zone
Nudity should not allow this game in T3.

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4. Burning Rubber - driving
Agreed

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5. Lady Bug - Collect Em Up
Pacman style game

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6. Xenophobe - what type is this?
No idea

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7. Marble Madness - race against the clock.

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8. Turtles
Pacman Style - see 2. and 5.

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9. 10 yard fight - football
Agreed

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10. Ghouls N' Ghosts - Platform
Hi-spec PC required - unfair to slower PC owners.

<p>

11. Tron
In a class of it's own, although scores of 1,000,000 are possible, as
patterns exist. See MARP.

<p>

12. Devil Fish... maze I would guess
yup - but not Pacman style.

<p>

13. Ninja Kid II(set 2) - platform I guess
no idea.

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14. Tempest - shooting?
Yup, classed as per Galaga and Gyruss

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15. City Connection
Pacman style game

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16. Magic Sword - platform - out due to two game rule
yup

<p>

17. Outzone - ??????
no idea

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18. The main event - wrestling
yup

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19. Sega Ninja - ??????
no idea

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20. Kangaroo
Multi-stage repeating - eg Donkey Kong.

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21. Do Run Run
Mr Do! + Dig Dug style. Own class.

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22. Snow Bros. - platform - out
yup

<p>

23. Green Beret - platform - out
yup

<p>

24. Mappy - oh... plaform - out
yup

<p>

I'd therefore say the choices could be:
1) Gauntlet II
4) Burning Rubber
5) Ladybug
6) Xenophobe
7) Marble Madness
9) 10 Yard Fight
11) Tron
12) Devil Fish
13) Ninja Kid II (set2)
14) Tempest

<p>

Now that looks like a good mix to me - none of these are anything
like the other.

<p>

I've only ever played 5 of them.

<p>

Crash.

--
crash@tcp.co.uk

As usual, I am not familiar with most of the games. Most of these, I
have never played or even seen before, so I can't say very much about
them. I do want to bring the subject of "marathon games" into the
discussion, though. I personally do not like marathon games, because
after some practice, it is no longer really a matter of skill, but
pure stamina. So it's no longer a question of who's best at the game,
but who cares to play it the longest.

<p>

And for those who like marathon games, please remember that we are
using m35tg3, which means that there is no Pause key. Please don't
let T3 become like Deca2000, where somebody has already submitted a
14.5 hour game, and where the majority of games are marathonable. Is
that what people want? Well, I don't. Like I said, it is more a
matter of stamina than skill. And even if I did, there is no way I
can leave my dogs unattended for that long.

<p>

If it turns out that the majority of people is against marathon
games, then maybe we should start taking a look at the MARP
recordings to see how long each of these games here can take.

<p>

There's one game in the first 10 that I should like to see removed:
Lady Bug. After Jr. Pacman in T2 and with Ms. Pac-Man in Deca2000,
please don't torture me with yet another one of those.

<p>

Cheers,
Ben Jos.

--
walbeehm@walbeehm.com

1. Gauntlet II -
2. Amidar - Collect em' up . I agree with Ben Jos, we should avoid
all "marathon" games.
3. Zero Zone - puzzle - Personnally, I have no problem with nudity ...
This game is anyway available to everyone, in the t3 or not. So we
can keep it.
4. Burning Rubber - driving
5. Lady Bug - Collect Em Up
I disagree with Ben Jos here : it's sure a pacman style game, but a
lot more interesting and tactical.
6. Xenophobe - what type is this?
stupid style. I don't want it... but I know... that's not a good
reason.
7. Marble Madness - maze
8. Turtles - No : 2 collect em up already.
9. 10 yard fight - football
I'm against this game : this is a football game ( american football )
and some non american players don't know rules of this game ( like me
).
10. Ghouls N' Ghosts - Platform
No. ninja kid is funnier.
11. Tron - uh... adventure I would guess
12. Devil Fish... maze I would guess
13. Ninja Kid II(set 2) - platform I guess
14. Tempest - shooting?
15. City Connection - driving

<p>

So, in conclusion, my ten games pick :
1. Gauntlet II
2. Zero Zone
3. Burning Rubber
4. Lady Bug
5. Marble Madness
6. Tron
7. Devil Fish
8. Ninja Kid II(set 2)
9. Tempest
15. City Connection
Laurent.

--
darre@club-internet.fr

1. Gauntlet II <br>
Good choice. <p>
2. Amidar <br>
As noted, it seems that one can marathon this game if they know what
they're doing. Either don't include it or force harder settings. <p>
3. Zero Zone <br>
I don't have a problem with the nudity, I just have a problem with how
boring the game is. The nudity will certainly offend someone, so I
dunno if this should get in... <p>
4. Burning Rubber <br>
I don't care for it, but ok. <p>
5. Lady Bug <br>
arrrgh, another maze game... <p>
6. Xenophobe <br>
Strange game, would seem weird to play in a tourney. Biggest problem
with this is finding a button configuration that feels natural. <p>
7. Marble Madness <br>
Not a maze game, more like racing. Another game where people with
trackballs have a nice advantage over the mouse users. <p>
8. Turtles <br>
noo, no more... <p>
9. 10-Yard Fight <br>
Not that familiar with it, but ok? <p>
10. Ghouls n Ghosts <br>
May run slow on some computers. (certainly didn't stop Neo-Geo games
from getting accepted in past tourneys though) <p>
11. Tron <br>
No. Very pattern-based, as shown on MARP someone can get huge scores
just by memorizing what to do. Do we REALLY want that? <p>
12. Devil Fish <br>
blah. <p>
13. Ninja Kid II <br>
don't foresee any big problems with this. <p>
14. Tempest <br>
Seems acceptable. <p>
15. City Connection <br>
It's a platformer, not a racer! And NotMan has already demonstrated
that after 900,000 points, the game awards an infinite amount of lives
for some reason. This could prove to be a big problem. <p>
16. Magic Sword <br>
again, could be slow... <p>
17. OutZone <br>
Overhead human shooter, seems fine with me. <p>
18. The Main Event <br>
Seems like a quarter-eater, would this be good for tourney play? <p>
19. Sega Ninja <br>
damn... guess OutZone outranks it <p>
20. Kangaroo <br>
looks like it's out... <p>
21. Mr. Do! Run Run <br>
This game would be great, it's mostly a "collect-em-up" but you don't
have to win the level that way. <p>
looks like the last three are out too

-BBH

--
lordbbh@aol.com