WRX2 argus recording

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:49 pm

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/2/7/b/wr ... mame64.zip

Ship+point leeching involved here.

At stage 4 there is a place where are two blocks next to eachother:
one block you get 50 000 points,
other block you get extra ship.

He shoots both, gets 50K +ship -crashes, does it again...does this for about 1,5 million points.

(Average speed is 99,336988%...But speed seems to vary between 89-107% during recording, is that ok? -I think not)

I dunno about other Argus recordings, finding winmame is pain in the arse, Marp links don't work.

SJK · Post by **SJK** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:40 am

He did the same thing on XX-Mission and that was allowed..

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:52 am

Don't see any reason for that to be allowed. Unless rules of Marp have changed recently.

Making less than 500K and leeching over 1,5M. He did not try to advance at the game at all -after reaching leech spot. Nobody interested in this subject, or what's the reason behind silence. Nobody interested about rules of Marp anymore?

I assume current rules are you don't have to do it by yourself to see unwanted leeching. Anything goes can not be the norm here.

Someone delete this recording now?

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 10:59 am

SJK wrote:He did the same thing on XX-Mission and that was allowed..

Is there a conversation about that? I don't see nobody allowing this kind of leeching.

Reference would be Super mario, where leeching for points and men was banned at certain point of the game...get some points...free man...die...same same, but same. Don't have to make new decisions if there is a similar case already at different game.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:51 pm

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... lines=9999

nothing wrong with the speed here it's what happens when autoframeskipping is used, 30% frames are just below 100% speed and 20% are above it. 50% are 100% frames. Out of 60000 frames in the game only 500 frames are below 90% speed, no frames were detected as pauses.

As for the leeching, yes wrx2 found a sweet spot, and the recording is pretty much against the leeching/progress rules but we need to have distinct "decided" special rule for this game, (1) limit the total ship deaths of the game to 5 or (2) to allow only one extra ship per instance or (3) something else, it's not clear which on it should be. I.e. (2) is if you happen to die twice in the sweet spot you can't get the 2nd extra ship with.

I consider wrx2 efforts (although leeching with out notification) to be quite usefull in prodiving the information about the sweet spots in games.

wrx2 has done a similar thing on vulgus http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... lines=9999 . But you can't do it as easily as you can with argus. A poll should to be started for both of these sweet spot leeching techniques.

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:06 pm

Marp rules:

f) Point or life leeching is strongly discouraged, and banned on some games, as described in the banned techniques list. You cannot continuously gain points without some degree of risk and you must keep moving to complete a level.

I think very obvious case.
Not only case against some fucking rules, but common sense.
Chad...I wonder...How you find wrx2 leeching useful, for what purpose?(Don't answer, I'll only mumble back something about tips&tricks and fair play, level competition, best player should win etc. Same things said in hundred posts already)

My opinion is that don't need voting to ban this kind of stuff. I will not make a voting on this, I'm not interested in this game enough. Only reason to make a poll would be if poll is needed for such clear case. But I will not do that either, tired for such crap now. Don't want to be defender of fair play and competitive rules forever. At least not for games I don't play. Will not defend Marp rules, which nobody follows anyway.

Hes/their recording beats couple good Japanese player scores, maybe they will make poll here since they've been unfairly beaten, I'd assume at least tech-d is not leeching

Thank you, I guess. (Insert happy smiley and kisses and hearts and kittens here)

QRS · Post by **QRS** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:46 pm

I agree with TJT here. Clear case of illegal leeching, no poll needed. This recording belongs on a trick page, not for competition.

And no, I don´t need to beat this recordings using the same type of leeching. I just need to watch the recording read the rules, share my opinion about it, and refer to similar games that have been banned using this type of leeching.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:03 pm

it's not the vote to ban the recording that i'd waiting for, i clearly said the recording is against the rules. but there will be a question for future recordings that use SOME OF THE sweet spot technique and continue on and even though will appear to progress they really are taking advantage more so than someone who doesn't want to appear to leech by only taking one 1up at each spot...

bub_bob · Post by **bub_bob** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:38 pm

hmm so why is the inp still there? nearly half a year later?

guido

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:56 pm

the recording is still worth some value if a special rule is decided to end at 5 lives, the recording is not if the special rule is decided to dq recordings that use the leechable 1up position. Plus i can't edit the Tech.D score since i can't play it back... lots of delay issues here.

Weehawk · Post by **Weehawk** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:14 pm

Unless there's some advantage in going with 5 men on this game and someone is in favor of it, just mention the specific technique in the Special Rules for this game and zero all recordings that use it, clearly in violation of 2f as Tommi quoted.

Somebody save it for the tips and tricks page in case it gets deleted.

Patwos · Post by **Patwos** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:52 pm

I thought we had voted on and banned the Vulgus technique for scoring extra lives some 5 years back when I first brought up/mentioned this technique?!

Perhaps it never got added to the special rules?

BJ.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:23 pm

this is the argus one, not the vulgus one (that one was voted on and special ruled)

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:53 pm

OK, it's still hanging there.

I suggest this to be zeroed, moved to tricks page and special rules as:
"You can get same 1up -bonus ship only once", with link to this discussion.

Anyone who disagrees, speak now or forever silent remain

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:21 pm

i always affraid of more than one sweet spot thus if we zero this one wrx2 might find another location and another recording. How about we decide on 5 or X lives, so we can quantify the inps rather than trying to determine if leeching was used? This kind of goes for thundercade too but that one is pretty easy to determine if leeching was used (only can leech at the end) so i'd agree to just zero those.