forums.marpirc.net

I haven't been active at MARP for very long, but to me MARP has two
main attractions.

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1. You can compete with other players just as you could in a "real
world" arcade.

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2. You can watch other players play the games in ways you wouldn't
think possible and get a great deal of pleasure out of it.

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When it comes to marathoned games there are a conflict between these
points, at least for me. If marathoned games are ruled out, you
wouldn't play the game just as it was in the arcade. If, on the other
hand, they are allowed, most of the fun of watching these inputs are
lost, since most people (including me) don't have the stamina to
watch a multi-hour recording. Even less people get any pleasure out
of it.

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An easy way out would be to vote for split games. But I will not do
that, since my opinion is that splits are only justified when the
game contains different "games in the game."

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Since I really enjoy watching good inputs, but haven't got the time
or the stamina do it for hours and hours, my vote is for D.

--
Albin@518.nu

I do like the idea of B, it's just the implementation of it that I am
a bit sceptical of. I like Lowe's idea of <game>-mt for a marathon
game attempt and perhaps <game>-tm for a tournament (5 lives only)
game attempt. And then there are games like Tetris which are
marathonable but where you only get one life or limited lives anyway?

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My list of marathonable games include Defender, Joust, Robotron,
Gauntlet (depending on settings and initial screen sequence), MrDo,
Asteroids, Bomb Jack, Tetris, Track & Field (which I gather has been
made one round only).

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One point I have do have for marathon games though is that they can
be a battle of wills. For example, I feel I can beat the Universal
Mr.Do high score (6.2 mil) but I can't be bothered at the moment so
Tim Hood is winning the battle of wills for that game. Pac Man is
another example, although you do have to score well up to the ninth
key. If Mr.Do was made 5 lives only it would not be like it would be
in an arcade but it would mean that more people would have the time
to beat the high score.

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Another point is that if games where you get an indefinite numer of
lives were made 5 lives only, it would change the way risks are taken
to get those extra lives. For example there would be no need to take
risks in going for the 'E' coin in Bomb Jack or the 'EXTRA's in Mr.Do.

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PS. Wasn't one clone of Joust supposed to have been moved to 5 lives
status by now?

--
garyjlee@hotmail.com

Sorry, LordGaz, I should have read gb9's original post better. The 'D'
listing is a mistake. '5 lives only' is an example of a setting, not
something concrete. I thik 5 lives only is a ridiculous idea, and if
other people were thinking like I was, we'll probably have to revote.

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I would say vote 'E'- TG settings only OR HARDER THAN TG. If you can
keep earning bonus lives on a game's hardest settings, then you should
be perfectly welcome to do so, even if you can play the game ad
infinitum. No marathons, save for those players who are good enough to
marathon on TG or harder than TG settings.

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This ruling would bind to Q*Bert, Joust, Mr. Do, Bomb Jack(already in
place), Gauntlet, Flicky, and Galaga.

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later...

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Screw it. I'm striking down this vote and posting a new one, but
before we vote I want a clear list of all games that players can
marathon on Default settings, just so everyone knows what they're
getting into. There will be a new thread posted, please watch for it
and respond.

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Q.T.Quazar,
MARP Rules Coordinator

--
qan@home.com

C is the best way to go. Especially if players in marp want to have
recognition for their accomplishment when the 2nd edition of the Twin
Galaxies Book of World Records is ready to go into production. The
TG ver. of mame is clean and is the best way to go. I will list a
nice size list of games below that I strongly feel should be broken
into 2 separate "high score" lists as I already numerous times
disscussed this with Walter Day on the phone about doing the same for
the next book. He already has done it on several games, but needs to
address it on many others.

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Regards,
Steve Krogman

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1) Robotron
2) Defender
3) Stargate
4) Joust
5) Q*bert
6) Galaga (this one I have been working on for some time now. I
disscussed this with Walter about using some kind of tournament
settings with this game to make it a little more challenging and
interesting. I've come up with a "TG Tournament Setting" that I'm
waiting response from Walter to see if it will be added like the ones
already in there (robotorn, joust, defender, ect). This game is
bordorline when talking about marathon. You can't play it for 24
hours like robotron, but I've managed to play galagatf for 10 hrs and
just think if there were a cut off point to avoid a marathon, it
would make the game rather interesting.

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Here are my 2 sets of settings everyone on MARP can vote on including
myself.

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* Either ver. of Galaga *

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1) Start with 5 men and no extras setting the difficulty on "D" to
avoid a lock-up at stage 255.

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OR

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2) Start with 5 men and no extras setting the difficulty on "C"
which will end the game at 255 (This makes it a little more
intersting because those that can reach this "kill screen" will want
to try and points press their score to see what the highest they can
get at this point, no different then players did on Pang3-10 levels.
This challenge of points pressing is fun and if it flys with players
on MARP, then it could be considered on other games.

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My vote is #2 even know I will disscuss with Walter to select #1 for
the book, reason being is that there are alot of players around the
world that can reach beyond the kill screen in the arcade so it would
be interesting to see how high of a score a player can get with just
5 men on setting D.

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Note: I've already taking into consideration that some of these
games haven't been marathoned yet on MAME that is, They still should
have there respected lists. It's just a matter of time before
someone (hell, could be me...) plays a game of Robotron or Defender
on their HotRod joystick and uploads a 40M or 50M pt game. We've
already seen what happened with Q*bert. Which is a phenominal score
by far.

--
skrogman@bellsouth.net

Why 5 lives, Steve? I don't understand the mentality. Why not the
lowest possible setting of lives, which would reduce the marathon and
make it harder for the better players to achieve an extremely high
score?

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Anyways, thank-you for responding to the Galaga question. I'll repost
your comments in the appropriate thread.

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Q.T.Quazar

--
qan@home.com

Q.T. Quasar, thanks for resonding to my thread. The only reason I
mentioned 5 men only is because it's pretty much the standard number
of men according to Twin Galaxies tournament settings coming from
Walter Day. I see your point though, compare a Robotron 5 men game
to a Galaga 5 men game and you'll notice the difference. I've gotten
499,000 on Robotron which is about a 15 min game. That's close to
only 500,000 on Galaga (18 min) compared to probably around 6M I
could get on 5 men which would be about 3.5 hours. What we really
need to talk about is what classifies a game as marathon? It has to
be a factor of time were talking about. Galaga may seem like it's a
marathon game, but in reality no one will last 14 hours on Galaga to
my knowledge especially if it's the original fire ver. Now Robotron
let's say, is endless because you get extra men every 25K. Galaga
you have 18 total men and even if a player could average a million
pts per man that would give him 18M and roughly a 10 hour game as I
did on turbo fire. Robotorn, Joust, or Q*bert for that matter can be
played for 48+ hours, it has been done already. Galaga 5 men
wouldn't be more then 4 hours I suspect so could we say any game that
lasts more then 5 hours is considered a marathon game? This may be
too time factor may be too low, I can find out tonight when I talk to
Walter on the phone and ask him what he considers a game to be
marathon. Is it because it's played endlessly (continuously awarding
men and not getting any harder)? or is it because it's being played
for a certain amount of time consistantly? I'll respond back to this
post later on.

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Regards,
Steve Krogman

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Longest marathon ~ Galaga Turbo fire MAME ver. 10 hrs.

--
skrogman@bellsouth.net

If you consider a limit of time to stop a marathonable game, you
could very easily limit the number of frames in the playback and
record the score when the inp stops playing back or perhaps when the
player loses all the lives since the ship/man won't move/fire
anymore..... this is a very easy thing to do with the right program
to trim the inp file to the correct number of frames to relate to an
hour/minute/second limit negotated by experts.

--
churritz@cts.com