archive mahjong/trivia games discussion

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:52 pm

it's way past time to eliminate those lame games that have zero competitive value. Many of the mahjong(really just a card game) decks are in set orders(read some of the descriptions posted with their uploads), plus they ultimately come down to luck based on who gets lucky enough to get the best winning hand(just wait to get the 'royal flush' equivalent)...they are just gambling(many even include 'bet' in their title) games, obviously.

The quiz games only have so many questions and it's just a matter of memorizing the answers(which many times requires knowledge of chinese/japanese language), so therefore anyone who plays these can get top score without using any skill beyond memorization. Same goes for hangman/wheel of fortune types as well.

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:50 pm

I kind of agree, and allways have.
However it would be very pity for Phil's HUGE effort at Mahjong front to archive those now, after so long time and so much work.

Also, I understand your frustration concerning golf games. Luckily it seems, at the moment, that there will still be about 50 tracks for Golden Tees after the poll, which is still quite many.
I hope this discussion is not made because of questionable motives. Maybe we should let the dust settle from the driving range before next strike.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:30 pm

Gambling mahjong games are no different than any other gambling game. The likelihood of winning can be set by the operator.

Regular mahjong games certainly to have some element of "cheating", more in the aid of making the game playable with two players (mahjong is traditionally a 4 player game). And yes, there are certainly differences between various mahjong games too.

I'll admit I haven't played Golden Tee at all (golf as an arcade game doesn't strike me as something fun), but it's more the amount of splits overall, and opening practically any other game to a similar split. Like a split for each possible route on Shock Troopers. Or a split for each playable character in all fighters or beat-em-ups. Hey, after stage 1 of Boogie Wings, you select one of 5 stages to do next, and again until the last stage. Have fun with a split for every possible combination of stages.

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:43 pm

and what about all of my(and gerhard et al)'s work on golf? But, to keep on topic, I'm sure most feel the same about the mahjongs and trivia titles. The time has come to deal with these also. This may sound like sour grapes, but so be it. The big problem is with no competitive value, these games have no place being in leaderboard standings. Having the rules changed after so long a time is just tough...it should have been done with the gambling games. Hell, all I did was ask for a split and then got screwed(assuming that yes(all people who haven't played any of the games in question I might add)wins). It's not fair to have non-competitive games in leaderboard calculation. I realize this will mainly affect Phil(sorry buddy), but there are at least 300 or so 1st's associated in these game classes.

Mahjong is just luck based on getting the best hand(many cases of only 1 score uploaded) and that classes them with betting/gambling games.

Trivia/quiz/word guessing games have a limited set of questions/answersj(not to mention the need for asian language skills). This makes the scores easily obtainable with little/no skill required for gameplay beyond memory. I thought that was a general(and old) rule for determining criteria for *rchiving. Am I wrong?

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:49 pm

I know the golf turned me off a little at first, too. It really is a fun passtime kinda game(you even have time for a couple smokes or phone calls during the game). I much prefer computer golf to the real thing. I don't know your ages(I'll assume most here are 20-40), but there is more to playing a game than just pulse rate. Finding hidden images(some pretty funny), doing a trick shot off the lawnmower guys head; it's just plain fun.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:06 pm

welby1 wrote:Mahjong is just luck based on getting the best hand(many cases of only 1 score uploaded) and that classes them with betting/gambling games.

Very few non-gambling mahjong games, except for the really old ones (TT Mahjong [1981] and Vs. Mahjong [1984]) have truly random hands. It's not so playable otherwise, as like I said before, mahjong is really a 4 player game.

destructor · Post by **destructor** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:54 am

welby1 wrote:Mahjong is just luck based on getting the best hand(many cases of only 1 score uploaded) and that classes them with betting/gambling games.

Not true. Not all mahjongs.
Mahjong Finished - knows that not luck only based
On MARP is more mahjongs which are finished (or almost finished).

But some mahjongs (not mahjongs only) should be archived. For example here sets are still the same (I can play forever):
Mahjong with constant sets
I always (almost always) write in description about bugs, etc.

I don't want archive golf games. I don't want split golf games to different courses. It have no sense. You can made identical score on each course. You want split golf games for leaderboard only? Then split all games, airshooters included where you can select different airplanes.
I don't know how many splits should be for G-Darius where you can choose different ways.

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:10 pm

I wouldn't have a problem with splitting any game(provided there is difference w/character such as gauntlet), but mahjong is just chinese poker(they just don't make good video gameplay unless you're playing with friends as opponents).

Des, what's your take on the hangman/trivia crap games...only so many questions/answers.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:48 pm

welby1 wrote:I wouldn't have a problem with splitting any game(provided there is difference w/character such as gauntlet), but mahjong is just chinese poker(they just don't make good video gameplay unless you're playing with friends as opponents).

I'd have a problem with it. It's just plain ridiculous to have, for example, 16-odd splits for SFA3. And what would you do for Shock Troopers, where you have a choice of using 1 character or a team of 3. 8 single characters, plus every possible combination of those 8. I'm sorry, but it'd would all be virtually impossible to keep up with.

And I don't think golf makes for an interesting arcade game either, but we ain't going to archive that.

The TJT · Post by **The TJT** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:01 pm

mahlemiut wrote:
And I don't think golf makes for an interesting arcade game either, but we ain't going to archive that.

You should try, actually playing golf games is quite relaxing pass time.
(TJT- having OD'd Blaster playing today)

Post by **mahlemiut** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:04 pm

I have no issues with golf per se, just don't think it makes for the greatest arcade game ever.

Also, if mahjong is simply luck - why is there a difficulty DIP switch for Super Real Mahjong Part IV?

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:42 pm

I would assume the difficulty switches control how often great hands come up, kinda like how the deck is rigged in poker/wins frequency on a slot? Some of the scores are a whopping '1'. Even some of the comments state constant cards/tiles. I like mahjong, but it just doesn't make for competitive video gaming, especially as a 1 player game.

There are also many comments about the trivia games having same questions(does it really matter what order they come in?) every time and the players stating they need *rchived should be a strong indicator that the gameplay value is quite low if any.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:57 pm

welby1 wrote:I would assume the difficulty switches control how often great hands come up, kinda like how the deck is rigged in poker/wins frequency on a slot? Some of the scores are a whopping '1'. Even some of the comments state constant cards/tiles. I like mahjong, but it just doesn't make for competitive video gaming, especially as a 1 player game.

You're looking at gambling mahjong games there. No regular mahjong game is going to have a score of '1'. But I do agree that those that give constantly the same hands should be archived. Probably due to the programmers of the game not coming up with a decent way to seed random numbers.

welby1 · Post by **welby1** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:35 am

don't the better gambling/poker games use proper random #'s? It seems like gambling either way. There are many that are no brainers though.

Post by **mahlemiut** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:04 am

What do you mean by "proper" random numbers? Not very many arcade systems have hardware for it. Short of the Pokey sound chip, and the AY-3-8910 sound chips (the random feature on the AY is rarely used, as far as I know), at least. Most games will have their own psuedo-random number routines.