hstennis and hstenn10

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 5:55 pm

http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... lines=9999

I tried playing back both of Phil Lamat's and Ocean View's inps for hstennis and hstenn10. it seems to fall out of sync after the first 2 points.

I wanted to just watch these to see how they are playing this game...cuz you can't do squat on only 1 credit.

Did they use only 1 credit and get big point bonus for winning just the 1 game against a highly ranked opponent?

If so that means it's only like a 1 credit game...plus the game seems somewhat patterned...do the same server to same opponent...he will hit it same area everytime. That's really about the only way to even hit the ball in many cases. IMHO these games should be archived. It's not about tennis at all or skill of playing the game given you only play for a little more than 1 minute.

I attempted playing the above replay files in the same mame version posted...but within VirtualPC running Win98 on my Mac....but that shouldn't cause a problem.

any ideas and info on how they played this game to get those scores is appreciated.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:22 pm

I can't play them back either, haven't tried 98 yet.

Weehawk · Post by **Weehawk** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:17 am

Chad wrote:I can't play them back either, haven't tried 98 yet.

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/9/0/3/ph ... mame60.zip

plays back properly for me. No luck on the others.

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:09 am

John, ok, so what did Phil do in that 42k game? Was it a 1 credit only game lasting only a little more than 1 minute?

Was it a game only involving a handful of shots?

What I am trying to get at which has been previously suggested in descriptions for submissions is this tennis game perhaps needs special rules so you actually get to play the game some.

ie. it might be cool to force where you start against the default ranked opponent...then have to play entire match against them....NOT allowing the concession by the opponent and you not allowed to concede to your opponent.

...then you keep playing match after match(assuming you win the matches) until you lose a match to an opponent. Your score is then whatever score you have at the end of that loss to that opponent. The #credits required for this won't matter...just keep adding them as necessary.

This game is clearly designed to require tons of credits just to play 1 real match against an opponent.

It's also bad that it's patterned....hit server same spot...get same result. I could clearly see this in the few points I could watch before it de-sync'd. The player was moving to the spot where the return of serve was going to be even before the ball was to his opponent. Where the computer opponent hits the ball has nothing to do with the position of the player but only the ball trajectory and location to him.

Phil Lamat · Post by **Phil Lamat** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:20 pm

As far as I remember, yes this is a 1 credit game ; needs not to lose a point to manage winning opponent in 21 minute

When you beat the opponent, you get a bonus depending on the skill level you've chosen for your opponent ; higher is the skill higher will be the bonus

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:04 am

Isn't that sort of trivial then? Ok, so you take the time to figure out the few serves you need to deliver to the opponent to make the points very quick so you can get that concession from them. Given it's patterned it would only take a handful of plays to figure it out...then perhaps a handful of plays until you had the right timing for execution.

The game lasts just a bit more than 1 minute and you have only hit about 10 shots.

That seems hardly worthy for a scoreboard.

Phil Lamat · Post by **Phil Lamat** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:37 am

Trivial ? then do it yourself !
Opponents are ranked from n°1 to n°40, and I only beat n°10 or so if I remember correctly, and it took a lot of tries and lot of time before managing to win him

If it is trivial, play n°1 and spend a minute to beat him, I'm curious what bonus it deserves

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:22 am

Oh, I'm sure it can potentially take lots of tries...but it all comes down to figuring out the serve placement and then where he will return it for serve placement...and having each point where you win the point on the serve or on your second or at most third hit.

Ok, so now you have figured that out....execution is pretty trivial...likely only taking you a handful of attempts before you had each serve as you wanted it etc.

I'm guessing even if you had the skill to beat the a top 5 or top 9 player you can't do it with only 1 credit as patterns for points likely would be longer so you would run out of time before you could get his concession and bonus points.

I was suggesting a way to perhaps make it more of a game to play...versus just having to execute about 10 separate moves to get the high score.

it was only a suggestion...guess you don't want it....fine.

I guess I'll take 30-60 minutes to figure out how to beat #10 or #11 within the time period. My biggest enemy actually is the frameskip 8 I must use for this game for it to play at speed.

Barthax · Post by **Barthax** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:38 am

LN2 wrote:Oh, I'm sure it can potentially take lots of tries...but it all comes down to figuring out the serve placement and then where he will return it for serve placement...and having each point where you win the point on the serve or on your second or at most third hit.

Rick, surely this is the same for all games? This sounds like exactly the correct tactics for beating so many games with just a minor change to the english to make it more general:

"Oh, I'm sure it can potentially take lots of tries...but it all comes down to figuring out how the game handles and then how the game can be expected to respond...and performing the correct action at the correct time."

LN2 · Post by **LN2** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:54 pm

Barthax wrote:Rick, surely this is the same for all games? This sounds like exactly the correct tactics for beating so many games with just a minor change to the english to make it more general:

nah, the point is the gameplay on 1 credit is too short.

The default settings for the Playchoice 10 games could have been used also which would have resulted in games ending after only a few minutes of play. It was decided that would make playing them for scores almost pointless...so they changed the rule so you get max time possible so you actually get to play through the game.

Also, given how sport games in general are treated at MARP, it surprises me tennis games like these are on 1 credit only. The game only lasts for a bit longer than 1 minute....regardless of skill level.

I was just proposing/suggesting we could easily make this game more fun by actually playing the game....which you can't really do on 1 credit.

I gave a scenario for how it could be done instead. It seems no one wants to perhaps play out entire matches and climb up the ladder/rankings of opponents until you lose to get a score.

For tennis that would make a lot more sense...and is how this game really is designed. It's not designed to play the game with only 1 credit.