Tourney 2 - *** Two Important Rulings ***

[Gameboy9]

Based on what people said - I'm going to make two rulings:
<p>

1. On a 6 - 1 Vote, every participant must play ALL of the games to qualify. If you submit a score to a game, you are defined as a participant. If you VOTE, you are defined as a participant.

<p>

If you do not play all of the games and you votes, you will be decreased one level of voting power for the next tournament(i.e. vote 5 games, 5 pts max(5/5) instead of 10/10). You go back to 10/10 either by participating correctly, or by skipping the next tournament. Second decrement of level is 3/3, Third is 1/1, Fourth is no voting allowed at all.(will automatically go back to third after one tournament) I hope that's something we all can understand... if you don't, let me know.

<p>

2. Votes will now be combined if a game is a DIRECT descendant of another. In other words, Ghosts and Goblins and Ghouls and Ghosts' votes will be combined. PacMan and Ms. Pac Man would be combined. 1942, 1943, and 1941 will be combined. However, Outrun and Hangon will not be combined.

<p>

The rule stating that there will not be two games of very similar type is now DROPPED - it was intended for situations concerning the rule above.

<p>

If you have any objections to these rules or are confused, please mention so here, on the rules voting thread or via email.

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

[MvdV]

I think it is a strange rule to consider Pacman and Ms. Pacman the
same. I would love to see Ms.Pacman, Jr. Pacman or Super Pacman in the
tournement but I do NOT want pacman in the tournament. So what game
will it be? The same for games like 1941, 1942, 1943 and 1943kai. I
agree the games look the same but there gameplay is different. Even
clones of games sometimes have different gameplay. Look at pacman and
hangly man for example.

<p>

Finally it seems that in this way games with a lot of look-alikes will
be in advantage.

<p>

For games that are clones and have an identical gameplay it is not
more than logical to combine the votes.

--
cypr135@knoware.nl

[Ben Jos Walbeehm]

To MvdV: A question: Since you say that you think it's strange that
Pacman and Ms. Pacman are considered the same, and since you also say
it's logical to combine votes for games that have identical gameplay,
I take it that you would not combine Pacman and Ms. Pacman? Why
though? Sure, they may require different patterns, but I don't think
that really makes gameplay different, or, more to the point, it
doesn't make them different TYPES of games.

<p>

I think the ruling was made to ensure that the tournament will have a
broad selection as far as the different types of games are concerned.
To me, all "eat the dots" types of games (Pacman, Ms. Pacman, Jr.
Pacman, Lady Bug, etc.) are the same TYPE of game, but I am no expert
at all on any of those games, and experts may very well disagree with
me.

<p>

I could argue that Crazy Kong and Donkey Kong are different games with
different gameplay, because the behaviour of the enemies (the AI, or
lack thereof, behind them) definitely differs between them, although
most people probably won't see it. However, they're the same TYPE of
game, and, as much as I'd like to see both in the tournament, I don't
think it would be fair to accept both in the tournament.

<p>

The tournament is supposed to be an all-round tournament, not a
tournament of racing games exclusively, not a tournament of "eat the
dots" types of games, not a tournament of ... , so I think it's only
fair to have AT MOST ONE representative of every type in the
tournament.

<p>

Just my opinion. Not intended as a flame.

<p>

Groeten,
Ben Jos.

--
walbeehm@walbeehm.com

[Gameboy9]

I should have mentioned that the first ruling is 99.9% solid, the
second ruling is not that solid - the vote stands at 2 - 1(with me
not voting yet... though I think I'm going to go with the new rule...
not official yet)

<p>

I think that if we're going to do that though, a person may not
combine for example pacman(10 pts) and ms. pacman(9 pts) together and
make 19 pts combined, probably making pacman an entry into the
tournament with just one vote.

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

[Chris Parsley]

gb, while I don't really agree with either, I can live with the first
one, but definately NOT the second one.
There is no way in hell you are going to tell me games like Ms.
PacMan and say Lock 'n' Chase or Ladybug, or even Jr. PacMan are the
same. There is no way these should be combined.
If we are combining, only one sport game then, only 1 puzzle game
(they are similiar, according to current rule, they are all
combined.) By your rule, we would combine centipede with millipede
with gorf which would be to galaga and galaxian, to 4dwarriors, to...
YOU SEE THE POINT?
I personally like how you within 24hrs decided to make rulings, gb...
What happened to giving people time?

--
cparsley1@hotmail.com

[Gameboy9]

Lady Bug and PacMan would NOT be combined with this possible new
rule - nor Lady Bug or Lock N' Chase. Nor Ghost Pilots and 1943 -
all examples are made by different companies altogether. PacMan and
Ms. PacMan and Jr. PacMan, but NOT PacLand nor PacMania would be
combined - the first three are directly related, but the other two
aren't(PacLand = Just about super mario brothers, PacMania - 3D Maze
Game, not 2D) To do your final example Chris, Centipede and
Millipede would be combined. Galaga(which can't be voted this time,
we played it last tourney), Galaxian, Galaga '88, and Galaga 3 would
be combined. Galaxian and Centipede would NOT be combined. Gorf
does a lot of different things other than galaxian, so it would NOT
be combined.

<p>

To make a long story short(I know... too late), if a game is made by
a different company, it would not be combined. If a game has the
same theme, yet is different enough in gameplay, it would not be
combined, regardless of who made it.

<p>

My problem with it is it brings in way too much subjectivity for me
to figure out which gets combined and which do not... I can figure
out pacman and ms. pacman, or pang/super pang... but what do I do
with others? This is why I'm neutral at this time instead of siding.

<p>

Well regardless... vote stands at 2 - 2... obviously that second rule
is NOT official...

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

[Pat]

Here's the swing vote to help defeat rule #2. The rule that Chad (I
think) proposed was to count originals and clones together for more
voting power. BTW, excellent idea!! However, this issue seems to
have gotten mixed up with the notion of limiting different TYPES of
games in a given tourney.

<p>

Thus my suggestion is to 1)count originals and clones together
(highest point total within that set gets in) and 2) do not allow more
than 2 games of the same type (e.g. puzzle, racing, maze, shooters,
etc...)

--
laffaye@ibm.net

[Dave Kaupp]

I vote yes to number one.
<p>

I vote no for number 2. Ms pacman and pacman are 2 different games,
allthough they both have the same theme. I played ghouls and ghosts
last night, it is definetly not the same as GnG.

<p>

PS: I'll be changing my game votes this weekend.

--
info@kaupp.cx

[Chris Parsley]

As long as we go by Lam's answer to the 2nd question, I can work with
it fine. That means pacman and pacman fast are together, BUT NOT
pacman and mspacman.
If this is the case, I am all go.
If not, I stay Heck NO!

--
cparsley1@hotmail.com

[Chris Parsley]

As long as we go by Lam's answer to the 2nd question, I can work with
it fine. That means pacman and pacman fast are together, BUT NOT
pacman and mspacman.
If this is the case, I am all go.
If not, I stay Heck NO!
ALSO - OFF THOUGHT, but.
WHEN DID WE START USING AN ALTERNATE scoring method for Cyberball
Regulation???
Currently, they just count by points scored, when the computer goes
by Total Margin of Victory to decide it's winner!
Your Score - Opponent's score....
Why does everyone ignore that fact in their Cyberball Regulation
postings???

--
cparsley1@hotmail.com

[Gameboy9]

OK... I believe this is what people are saying: do not mix up pacman
and mspacman - but DO mix clones and originals together - I.E. pacman
and pacman-fast(clones) will mix together - most votes in that game
will get the game, not both. I think I like that idea, so I will put
a vote of no to allow direct realatives to the games(I.E. pacman and
mspacman), and support mixing of clones(mspacman(6 pts for example),
mspacman-fast(8pts), 14 total, mspacman-fast would be played, not
mspacman).

<p>

The vote now makes 6 votes to 1 against the second ruling - according
to the new voting rules, the motion is rejected(I know... quit the
formal junk )

<p>

The new rule is as follows:

<p>

The only votes that will be combined together will be a game's
original and it's clones. Whichever one gets the most points gets the
game submitted into the tournament, but not both.

<p>

Next thing: Pat Laffaye alluded that we should have no more than two
of one type: racing, shooter, collect em' up, etc. Current rule
stands that we'd have no more than one of very specific types:
hangon, outrun are similar(checkpoint racers), but say rally bike
and F1 Dream would not.(qualifier racers) Granted, this could also be
a subjective type, but probably easier to get right than the previous
issue...

--
goldengameboy@yahoo.com

[Cicca]

I wish to say my opinion on this....but seems too late.....after 2
days theese new rules are already passed or discarded.....don't you
think you're running too much, gb !?!?

<p>

Anyway:
1) too complex....I don't care....
2) I think clones points should have been combined, but people can
vote only 1 game per group.

<p>

Just my "late" comment....

--
cicca@writeme.com

[Brian McLean]

Hearing everyone (Well, OK, two people) complain about the swiftness
with which rulings are reached here, it seems to me that perhaps a
change of the rules is in order. MARP is attracting new people, and
as such a vote of 9 people would be reached rather quickly. Perhaps
it should come under review to allow more people to react before a
change to MARP is effected, or a minimum period of time? Granted, in
my eyes you don't ~need~ more than two days to make a change. If
you're not checking the board that often, hey, tough. The needs of
the many outweigh the needs of the few, or something like that.

<p>

Looking at the tourney, I see about 20 people I'd consider real
competitors (judging from number of games played, I know I'm leaving
out those that played 10 and 11), so it's hard to really raise the
number of people needed to make a vote. I leave that for gb to puzzle
out.

<p>

Just don't kill anybody.

<p>

Brian

--
bmclean84@hotmail.com