With all the international member of MARP translating the benefits of AlphaMAME into all kinds of languages should be easy. What we need translated are the first three parts of alphamame.txt.I'm affraid non-english speakers will have a tough time realizing the benefits of alphamame.
German Krol´s Frogger
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Buttermaker
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German Krol
- Button Slapper
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Ignore the translated version from ALTAVISTA, it´s horrible.
Here´s the English version of the text I wrote in Spanish; my girlfriend, who speaks English, translated it for you to understand:
"Dear people: My name´s German Krol and I would like you to know my point of view about this. I was born and I live in Argentina, and I don´t speak English very well that´s why I´m writing it in Spanish. The inp I have just sent is EXACTLY THE SAME I sent in August 1999, since I don´t think I can make such a score again even though I play it a thousand times, and besides that I don´t feel like doing it and I don´t have enough time to do it again either. Not only surprise but also the indignation I felt when I noticed it was previously deleted not knowing why, made me publish it again.
If you check the records in the MARP site, you´ll see that I used to be a regular MARP player at that time, and I even got the First place in the ranking. Unfortunately my work and my duties did not and do not allow me to have enough time so as to keep on taking part the way I like, since these kind of things never stop liking. I haven´t even sent a new inp in years, but let me clear something up:
This inp is PERFECTLY VALID, it was made WITH NO TRICKS AT ALL; nor slowdown, nor Moslo, nor anything like that. Frogger has always been one of my favourite games since being a child and it took me more than a month of continuous practice to achieve the necessary technique so as to get what I got that day;in fact I played it all night long (something about 8 hours, I think) and I only used the "pause" to relax my hands a couple of times,and it can be clearly seen that no advantage at all can be taken when using it, it is the other way around: you lose rythm. Now also I see that the use of pause is banned in some games...anyway. I am getting older and not updated so as to compete at high level, but BY NO MEANS I ACCEPT your doubting about the legitimacy of said recording. I do exactly remember that the FPS were 60/60, and to those who are questioning this, I tell you to simply prove it; better yet would be your coming home and watching me play so as to show you that I did get that score. That night I was simply inspirated and it went beyond any expectations, even mine. Is it so hard to accept?
I´m very sad because it has been banned again and WITH NO REASON at all. It is my first World record and the only one, and I´m proud to tell you so and to have achieved it. I would have really liked it to be accepted in this site and to be the first in the Frogger´s records, neither more nor less, with all the honours as it should be .....but for some people it does seem unacceptable the fact that such a record can be achieved cleanly......well, I did so and do you want to know something?: that´s enough for me and I don´t care if you correct it or not, I do know what I have achieved.
I don´t know who it was who mention it, but I would like to send it to the Twin Galaxies Records. I haven´t simply done it before because I don´t know how to do it and because "my pride" and "my fun" was to be part of MARP more than of any other community.
If sending my INP again caused this argument, in which I was set aside and deleted again without consulting me first, then I apologize.
Take out my inp and forget about it.
I just wanted justice to be made.
Regards,
Germán Castagnasso (Germán Krol)"
As what regards Skito´s comment, I did use the pause, but only a couple of times since it took me 8 hours to achieve said score. Couldn´t I go to the bathroom, then? Then, you´re nutts if you think so.
Not only my recording was made at that time but also my original submission was sent in August 1999, before your 3-3-3 rule. So, the use of the pause was not a banned technique at that moment. (and I don´t get tired of saying it again that you do not take any advantage when pausing in the Frogger, it´s not perhaps as in any other games or any other memory games, puzzle games, mazes, etc)
You did make a mistake by deleting the original version sent.
Now take the decision you like most, though you have already taken it by deleting it.
Any of you could have written to me since you have my e-mail address and consult me about anything, but none of you did.
Germán Castagnasso (Germán Krol)
Here´s the English version of the text I wrote in Spanish; my girlfriend, who speaks English, translated it for you to understand:
"Dear people: My name´s German Krol and I would like you to know my point of view about this. I was born and I live in Argentina, and I don´t speak English very well that´s why I´m writing it in Spanish. The inp I have just sent is EXACTLY THE SAME I sent in August 1999, since I don´t think I can make such a score again even though I play it a thousand times, and besides that I don´t feel like doing it and I don´t have enough time to do it again either. Not only surprise but also the indignation I felt when I noticed it was previously deleted not knowing why, made me publish it again.
If you check the records in the MARP site, you´ll see that I used to be a regular MARP player at that time, and I even got the First place in the ranking. Unfortunately my work and my duties did not and do not allow me to have enough time so as to keep on taking part the way I like, since these kind of things never stop liking. I haven´t even sent a new inp in years, but let me clear something up:
This inp is PERFECTLY VALID, it was made WITH NO TRICKS AT ALL; nor slowdown, nor Moslo, nor anything like that. Frogger has always been one of my favourite games since being a child and it took me more than a month of continuous practice to achieve the necessary technique so as to get what I got that day;in fact I played it all night long (something about 8 hours, I think) and I only used the "pause" to relax my hands a couple of times,and it can be clearly seen that no advantage at all can be taken when using it, it is the other way around: you lose rythm. Now also I see that the use of pause is banned in some games...anyway. I am getting older and not updated so as to compete at high level, but BY NO MEANS I ACCEPT your doubting about the legitimacy of said recording. I do exactly remember that the FPS were 60/60, and to those who are questioning this, I tell you to simply prove it; better yet would be your coming home and watching me play so as to show you that I did get that score. That night I was simply inspirated and it went beyond any expectations, even mine. Is it so hard to accept?
I´m very sad because it has been banned again and WITH NO REASON at all. It is my first World record and the only one, and I´m proud to tell you so and to have achieved it. I would have really liked it to be accepted in this site and to be the first in the Frogger´s records, neither more nor less, with all the honours as it should be .....but for some people it does seem unacceptable the fact that such a record can be achieved cleanly......well, I did so and do you want to know something?: that´s enough for me and I don´t care if you correct it or not, I do know what I have achieved.
I don´t know who it was who mention it, but I would like to send it to the Twin Galaxies Records. I haven´t simply done it before because I don´t know how to do it and because "my pride" and "my fun" was to be part of MARP more than of any other community.
If sending my INP again caused this argument, in which I was set aside and deleted again without consulting me first, then I apologize.
Take out my inp and forget about it.
I just wanted justice to be made.
Regards,
Germán Castagnasso (Germán Krol)"
As what regards Skito´s comment, I did use the pause, but only a couple of times since it took me 8 hours to achieve said score. Couldn´t I go to the bathroom, then? Then, you´re nutts if you think so.
Not only my recording was made at that time but also my original submission was sent in August 1999, before your 3-3-3 rule. So, the use of the pause was not a banned technique at that moment. (and I don´t get tired of saying it again that you do not take any advantage when pausing in the Frogger, it´s not perhaps as in any other games or any other memory games, puzzle games, mazes, etc)
You did make a mistake by deleting the original version sent.
Now take the decision you like most, though you have already taken it by deleting it.
Any of you could have written to me since you have my e-mail address and consult me about anything, but none of you did.
Germán Castagnasso (Germán Krol)
None of the recordings that are blocked are deleted, they just get less leaderboard points.
http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0
your recording is there in 11th place underneath the one tgmame recording. I do apologize for not mailing you personally; however the blocking rules have been around for a few months along with there being a warning on the home page.
As to the bathroom thing, I'll be the first to congradulate you for that score but don't tell us that it's not an advantage over someone that may actually hold it in for that long... gotta stay with the decision. Sorry, it's been a long time since you've been submiting stuff to get a welcome like this... and we hope you can submit more! (yeah i'm old too but i can find games i can still have fun with with out ruining my shreaded arms :)
http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0
your recording is there in 11th place underneath the one tgmame recording. I do apologize for not mailing you personally; however the blocking rules have been around for a few months along with there being a warning on the home page.
As to the bathroom thing, I'll be the first to congradulate you for that score but don't tell us that it's not an advantage over someone that may actually hold it in for that long... gotta stay with the decision. Sorry, it's been a long time since you've been submiting stuff to get a welcome like this... and we hope you can submit more! (yeah i'm old too but i can find games i can still have fun with with out ruining my shreaded arms :)
-skito
The thing is though... if you were going for a high score in an arcade, would you have the luxury of pausing the game if you wanted to rest your hands or go the bathroom?German Krol wrote:As what regards Skito´s comment, I did use the pause, but only a couple of times since it took me 8 hours to achieve said score. Couldn´t I go to the bathroom, then? Then, you´re nutts if you think so.
hehe....I would have kept going but I was really hungry!
Actually given the high score at MARP was 100 million, I figured doubling that just makes sense...so I stopped at 200 mil. For the other rom set which actually is a little more difficult, I stopped at only 100 million.
I have done a few runs with the difficulty set to "hard" instead of the mame default of easy and had mastered it at "hard" also but the game has a flaw in it that results in a "kill screen" where the game "bombs" so you can't continue to play it. I did 3 runs of that and each time that occurred in the 60-70 million range.
It's related to a particular wave where I think if you always sacrifice a man at a key point during that wave you perhaps can avoid getting the bug/bomb/crash that ends your game.
In regards to this Frogger run...the fact he used pause makes me wonder if it's acceptable. How long were the pauses? You wouldn't be able to pause the arcade game and can't pause alphamame without your score being dq'd so I don't think it can be allowed on that basis.
It's a shame he isn't able to reobtain a score like that cuz it would be a world record AFAIK. It's beyond any score I have ever seen at any scoreboards including TG.
I'm guessing a lot of luck was in that game that he didn't get the equivalent of a kill-screen where the logs aren't moving or barely moving...so you lose all your men from time limits.
If you accept his score even with use of pause, then I personally think given it's the same inp that was at MARP years ago...long prior to alphamame blocking being added, that this score shouldn't be blocked.
I personally don't like how "blocking" is shown anyway. If you look at frogger scores...just the top 3...you have no idea someone has a 600k score for the game. Even if you view that game listing you have to scroll down a bit and read the description to see that blocked score that actually is a world record score!
If the score was never removed from MARP in the past by an editor then it wouldn't be blocked today.
Actually given the high score at MARP was 100 million, I figured doubling that just makes sense...so I stopped at 200 mil. For the other rom set which actually is a little more difficult, I stopped at only 100 million.
I have done a few runs with the difficulty set to "hard" instead of the mame default of easy and had mastered it at "hard" also but the game has a flaw in it that results in a "kill screen" where the game "bombs" so you can't continue to play it. I did 3 runs of that and each time that occurred in the 60-70 million range.
It's related to a particular wave where I think if you always sacrifice a man at a key point during that wave you perhaps can avoid getting the bug/bomb/crash that ends your game.
In regards to this Frogger run...the fact he used pause makes me wonder if it's acceptable. How long were the pauses? You wouldn't be able to pause the arcade game and can't pause alphamame without your score being dq'd so I don't think it can be allowed on that basis.
It's a shame he isn't able to reobtain a score like that cuz it would be a world record AFAIK. It's beyond any score I have ever seen at any scoreboards including TG.
I'm guessing a lot of luck was in that game that he didn't get the equivalent of a kill-screen where the logs aren't moving or barely moving...so you lose all your men from time limits.
If you accept his score even with use of pause, then I personally think given it's the same inp that was at MARP years ago...long prior to alphamame blocking being added, that this score shouldn't be blocked.
I personally don't like how "blocking" is shown anyway. If you look at frogger scores...just the top 3...you have no idea someone has a 600k score for the game. Even if you view that game listing you have to scroll down a bit and read the description to see that blocked score that actually is a world record score!
If the score was never removed from MARP in the past by an editor then it wouldn't be blocked today.
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Buttermaker
- MARP Seer
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- Joined: Sun May 19, 2002 9:06 am
If his original posting of this Frogger score was removed due to his other games being suspect, and if analINP doesn't show any slowdown (as he has indicated that he didn't use slowdown), then maybe the original recording should be reinstated - and not blocked (as it is an old recording).
I think Pause is allowed in MARP (within reason - i.e. quick answering phone or toilet break), but just not in TG MAMEs - correct?
Kranser.
I think Pause is allowed in MARP (within reason - i.e. quick answering phone or toilet break), but just not in TG MAMEs - correct?
Kranser.
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Buttermaker
- MARP Seer
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Sun May 19, 2002 9:06 am
Rick: German's is a world record score but no one (tg/marp tournaments/olymipad/guiness) would accept it if they knew it was not played in true arcade style. Have to give props to Mr. Krol because if he didn't honestly admit it, he'd be a real loser, but obviously he deserves Mass respect for coming clean. But yeah, it belongs in a place where it's easier to see, just can't be done now at marp, separate leader boards would accomplish this but it would be a lot of work.
German's not getting off easy sad to say, hey could have easily used tgmame68 for this one but another one "blocks" the dust. I've emailed him this time
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http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0
German's not getting off easy sad to say, hey could have easily used tgmame68 for this one but another one "blocks" the dust. I've emailed him this time
.http://marp.retrogames.com/index.cgi?mo ... 00&tourn=0
-skito
Well, my larger point was about this whole blocking issue.
What is the real point of the blocking? I didn't participate in that discussion etc. at all. Is it purely for MARP leaderboard points issue or for the scores themselves to see that no scores are obtained by taking advantage of playing a game at a slower speed or using pause for a several hour game?
I thought MARP's #1 thing was to be an inp library as tons of examples of excellent gameplay for others to download and enjoy if they want.
If I look up Frogger I want to see the highest SCORES and perhaps watch the inp to see such a feat like 600k in Frogger.
With all this blocking stuff that aspect is lost. Now MARP is about just showing the best gameplay in alphamame....not about showing the best gameplay period.
It seems you could still list 600k as top score for Frogger but just in the leaderboard points treatments block it down as necessary and assign the proper leaderboard points and place points. In the Frogger scores listing I would like to still see it listed as 600k and in it's sorted order by score.
Think down the road a bit...when/if there are a lot of blocked scores....are people actually getting to see the best gameplay at MARP? Not if they aren't looking over all of the listings but only the top 3s they aren't.
Just my thoughts there....mainly how to display the results...blocking for MARP pts etc. is fine.
What is the real point of the blocking? I didn't participate in that discussion etc. at all. Is it purely for MARP leaderboard points issue or for the scores themselves to see that no scores are obtained by taking advantage of playing a game at a slower speed or using pause for a several hour game?
I thought MARP's #1 thing was to be an inp library as tons of examples of excellent gameplay for others to download and enjoy if they want.
If I look up Frogger I want to see the highest SCORES and perhaps watch the inp to see such a feat like 600k in Frogger.
With all this blocking stuff that aspect is lost. Now MARP is about just showing the best gameplay in alphamame....not about showing the best gameplay period.
It seems you could still list 600k as top score for Frogger but just in the leaderboard points treatments block it down as necessary and assign the proper leaderboard points and place points. In the Frogger scores listing I would like to still see it listed as 600k and in it's sorted order by score.
Think down the road a bit...when/if there are a lot of blocked scores....are people actually getting to see the best gameplay at MARP? Not if they aren't looking over all of the listings but only the top 3s they aren't.
Just my thoughts there....mainly how to display the results...blocking for MARP pts etc. is fine.
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Buttermaker
- MARP Seer
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Sun May 19, 2002 9:06 am
To see that no scores are obtained by taking advantage of playing a game at a slower speed or using pause for a several hour game.Is it purely for MARP leaderboard points issue or for the scores themselves to see that no scores are obtained by taking advantage of playing a game at a slower speed or using pause for a several hour game?
But wouldn't you want to know if the player played at full speed without having to contact an editor to check for slowdown? I don't even wanna know how many Inps at MARP are played below regulation speed and I'm not saying that these players cheated on purpose. They just didn't realize that their computers were too slow.If I look up Frogger I want to see the highest SCORES and perhaps watch the inp to see such a feat like 600k in Frogger.
AlphaMAME gameplay is the only gameplay I wanna see. Without AlphaMAME you never know unless you contact an Editor to have him check out the Inp. People using Windows should simply use AlphaMAME.With all this blocking stuff that aspect is lost. Now MARP is about just showing the best gameplay in alphamame....not about showing the best gameplay period.
If somebody submits using a non-AlphaMAME version and his Inp gets blocked I would hope that they come back and use AlphaMAME to show that they are legit. If somebody doesn't come back with an AlphaMAME recording after having his/her record blocked there's probably a reason for it.Think down the road a bit...when/if there are a lot of blocked scores....are people actually getting to see the best gameplay at MARP? Not if they aren't looking over all of the listings but only the top 3s they aren't.
Yeah Rick, i doubt you'd want to see all the possible scores "achievable" with mame, you know there are just plain -cheat methods out there that allow you to be invincible etc., and with that you can get as high scores as you want. I think you really only want to see high scores that are legit, which alphamame is trying to do. Marp is a repository for all inps to help debug mame for sure, but someone debugging a specific game would proly want to check out ALL recordings for a game, not just the high scores.Buttermaker wrote:[But wouldn't you want to know if the player played at full speed without having to contact an editor to check for slowdown? I don't even wanna know how many Inps at MARP are played below regulation speed and I'm not saying that these players cheated on purpose. They just didn't realize that their computers were too slow.If I look up Frogger I want to see the highest SCORES and perhaps watch the inp to see such a feat like 600k in Frogger.
-skito