Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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amarauma
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Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by amarauma » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:16 pm

Hi!
This is my first post.
My doubt is why is allowed to double KO or loose a round in the game.
Look this: http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/c/f/3/pv_ ... olf106.zip; He explore a Double KO exhaustively.
This way make the competition unfair.
For me this is leeching.

There's a way to create a new rules? I like to play in a no round loose or draw game competition.
To see the true ending is not alowed loose round; It mean that's the way to play Street Fighter.
If the rules dont can be change, another category can be created?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by bmclean » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:50 pm

My opinion is that the appropriate rule in MARP is 2f, which is as follows:

"Point or life leeching is strongly discouraged, and banned on some games, as described in the banned techniques list, or in the specific game's special rules. You cannot continuously gain points without some degree of risk and you must keep moving to complete a level."

In SF2 it is not possible to lose/double-KO forever. Only one round can be lost in a match, and there is a maximum of 10 rounds per fight so double-KOs are limited as well. So while it is an artificial way to inflate scores, there is an end to it as well as some risk involved. A person who goes for a 10-round match but takes a hit in round 10 can no longer double-KO and get another chance at a perfect, and potential points are lost. Also, if they have already lost a round and accidentally miss a double-KO and lose again, their game is over. Attempting to get multiple double-KOs is a risky play. From this, the requirements of rule 2f are satisfied. You say that this makes the competition unfair. Can you explain why that is? Everybody has the opportunity to do the same if they wish to have the highest score.

Personally, I find it boring to watch. Once you've seen how a player sets up a double-KO, it is not interesting to watch them execute it many times. However I recognize that being able to do this exhibits complete mastery over the AI of the CPU opponents and is of a higher skill level than someone who simply wins every round, as a player who can double-KO 8 times in a single match is going to be able to get two perfects in a row if they choose. For that reason, I am in favor of keeping the current rules in place.

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by amarauma » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:42 pm

I think this is unfair because this is a fighting game.
I play Street Fighter since the SF2 and anyone know the rule to be a greater fighter; Kill fast and don't loose rounds.
Why exists then 3 ends? Why the true end is finish the game whith no rounds loose?
In the SFA series there's a bonus call "complete" for who dont loose a round and a bonus for velocity of win.
Explore this type of trick don´t combine whith street fighter.
Why unfair? Damn, is a fighting game! I don't want to learn how to draw or double KO.
I think the question is that must have categories.
I recognize that is hard to acomplishe that trick. It's a great,great player.
In a free trick rule he is a master.
But in the non free trick rule, who is a master?

Too in SSF2T and SFA series there's a rule of velocity. I don´t like play at high speed. The choose should be free. Each one should play in a speed that be more nice to him. The velocity don't change the points.

Someday ago, I thought in search sites of Games Records just to measure my skills whith other players... i admit my deception in found this record. Like the real life, the winner always is who use a type of "cheat". Don't break the rules. Find a way to cross around this. Don't speak the truth is not lie....

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by mahlemiut » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:51 pm

You are welcome to play without losing rounds all you want. There is nothing stopping you. Some players will do anything for score, others just prefer to play with skill Which you do, is entirely up to you.
Leeching is for insomniacs. :) But if you don't want to do it, then don't do it. The leaderboard is not that important.
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amarauma
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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by amarauma » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:44 pm

I See.
"You are welcome to play without losing rounds all you want. There is nothing stopping you."
I know. You're explaining the obvious. No ofense.

"Some players will do anything for score,"
I know too. The problem is don't have a proper category for this.

'others just prefer to play with skill Which you do, is entirely up to you.'
Is against this people that i like to measure skills.

"Leeching is for insomniacs. :) But if you don't want to do it, then don't do it."
I totaly agree whith you. Each one, each one.

"The leaderboard is not that important."
Sorry man. This is not true. Why i make part of a site whith records, if score and leaderboard don´t be important?
This is nonsense.

Finally i think i misunderstand this tópic:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15809

No is my intention ofend nobody. I want only see the possibilities.

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by bmclean » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:35 pm

I think the problem is in asking to split off a different category within a game solely to suit one playing style. Sometimes special rules are written for a game because it has no in-game scoring system, like many racing games, or they might discourage infinite leeching techniques by restricting players to their score within the first five lives of a game. But when there is an in-game scoring system and no way to play forever without advancing the game, there must be some maximum score (or counter stop) that can be reached.

It is understandable that you feel that the strongest players are those who only get perfects without draws and double-KOs and win matches quickly, but if we as a community do that then the requests to split other games would be endless. We would have requests to split Rastan so that only games finished in 35 minutes or less are allowed, or requests to split Black Tiger/Black Dragon so that no point leeching off of the skeletons and rocks can be done, or requests to ban point leeching in the first stage in Rolling Thunder. In all cases, these replays are only interesting to watch by a very skilled player who wants to study technique to get the maximum score allowable within a game. To somebody who wants to see a game finished quickly, these are all boring replays. But they achieve the highest score and that is what is measured here at MARP.

It sounds like you may be more interested in a speed run of SF2 than in going for points. Somebody who plays only to get perfects and complete rounds quickly would naturally finish the game as fast as possible. I don't know of a MAME speed run replay site, but I think it's an interesting possibility.

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by amarauma » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:13 pm

I understand the question.
You probably is right.
But not is a case of speedrun.
More speed in kill, more points in seconds.
Thank you for answer.
The game alow the trick, so is valid.
Maybe someday categories be created. Or not.
For now, better forget about.
There's more game to try beat the record.

Once again, thank you.

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by INNUENDO » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:37 pm

I like the idea to do Speed Run session in MARP. :)
Long life to good games

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by Zhorik » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:46 pm

Zhorik wrote:MARP Election 2015 - Results

The following candidates were running unopposed and have been elected:
Time Trial Coordinator (aka MAME Speedrunning League): Zerstorung

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by amarauma » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:53 am

To find the true value in No Rounds Loose or draw:
Each draw or loose= -4000 points.
Just to compare.

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by GHEMANT » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:33 am

Only 2 words.

Street Fighter II with no round miss = BEGINNER PLAYER. ALL medium players can perform a replay with all perfect and no miss.

Use Draw or Double K.O. = ADVANCED PLAYER.

Special rules are necessary only in the games with infinite pattern.

Use Draw in SFII require enormous knowledge of the game. 1 draw mistake = entire game quit.

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by Novice » Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:37 am

score adjust does not work well.
using guile, vacume throw and destroy 2 objection and double k.o. by summersult, 17000 points each round.

drop Barlog claw,10000 points.

and those are million times more difficult than no damage all perfect 22 wins.
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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by amarauma » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:20 am

yes, but in double ko you dont have a perfect.

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Re: Doubt about Street Fighter Series:

Post by GHEMANT » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:11 am

Double ko or draw = 4,000 pts (average for each). With Guile is possible more... 10,000/15,000.

10 draw = + 40,000 pts.

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