WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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GHEMANT
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WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by GHEMANT » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:47 am

Actually the first position in Marp is played on wolfmame 144. This version is totally different from the others (I use 106 usually): the damage is totally different. If you use down+weak kick in wolf 144 you can see a incredible damage versus all characters. In wolf 106 the damage is normal / original. All this make incompatible these 2 versions, the old replay by me and Moreno use wolf 95. Any reason?

Only "wh1" rom have this strange super damage. Other romset "wh1h and wh1ha" are normal.

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by Haze » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:13 am

wh1 is the original arcade release

wh1h / wh1ha are the version most commonly found on AES home carts (but sometimes 2nd run arcade or bootlegs) they're a newer code revision.

presumably the bug was identified in the original game and later fixed.

as far as MARP goes it sounds like the replays just need to be associated with the correct sets (naming changed at some point)

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by Phil Lamat » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:47 am

Yep :
0.120: Johnboy added World Heroes (set 1). Fully redumped (set 2), this is verified AES version. Changed description of clone 'World Heroes (set 2)' to '(set 3)'. Changed 'World Heroes (set 1)' to clone '(set 2)'. Renamed (wh1h) to (wh1ha) and (wh1) to (wh1h).

So all pre-120 inputs have to be moved.
Fixed

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by GHEMANT » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:53 am

Is the first case of AES / MVS version totally different in gameplay. My question is:

the old wh1 (aes version) exist also in MVS in some part of the world?

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by Haze » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:03 am

they inevitably ended up on MVS carts, either officially or unofficially. As we can't be 100% sure on the 'officially' bit they're put as clones rather than being the parent.

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by BBH » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:12 am

whenever I saw the game in arcades here when it was new in 1992, it was the version with higher damage. I distinctly remember thinking how stupid it was that Brocken could take pretty much an entire lifebar out just doing rapid crouching light kicks. Never saw a version with lower damage.

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by GHEMANT » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:22 am

ok, after some research... both MVS version exist officially (some users have set 1, other have set 2). Set 1 (with big damage Broken) is common, set 2 with low damage is uncommon. However there are tons of differences... in set 1 some combos not work, special moves are slow....

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by GHEMANT » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:01 am

Both versions are original MVS carts and probably exist 2 versions also in AES ROM. The same for many other neo geo games. There are again some games in 2 versions not available in mame, exemple Blue's Journey.

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by Despatche » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:52 am

I question why MAME is (sensibly) using an older version as the parent when they seem very adamant about using whatever the latest version they can find is. Even if wh1h is for a "home console", the AES is not a home console at all and it should be treated as an "update", never mind that there seems to be an MVS/AES toggle for every single version of every single game.

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by mahlemiut » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:26 pm

What do you mean the AES is not a home console? Other than it not being exactly affordable...
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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by _Zaphod_ » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:07 am

Here is how the Brocken thing works.

On World Heroes games that had this feature, (which was most of them on location) any knockdown using a string of light attacks by Brocken was an instant KO (and would royally piss off any human player you ever did it to). It did make him the easiest character to beat the game with by far.

That said, he was not the only character that had a death combo. The other characters that could do it involved sliding and dizzys.

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by GJTMarper » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:19 am

_Zaphod_ wrote:That said, he was not the only character that had a death combo. The other characters that could do it involved sliding and dizzys.
So should there be a special rule with this game banning use of any character with an instant-KO combo (or at least using Brocken)? It doesn't seem fair to compare scores by players using a character with a (probably caused by a bug in the program) instant-KO combo vs. players that use a character that doesn't have an instant-KO combo.

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by Phil Lamat » Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:32 pm

Before making a special rule, can someone post there an inp showing what you're talking about ?
I've watched 1st place on wh1, I don't see any "instant ko"
Last edited by Phil Lamat on Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by BBH » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:28 pm

GJTMarper wrote:
_Zaphod_ wrote:That said, he was not the only character that had a death combo. The other characters that could do it involved sliding and dizzys.
So should there be a special rule with this game banning use of any character with an instant-KO combo (or at least using Brocken)? It doesn't seem fair to compare scores by players using a character with a (probably caused by a bug in the program) instant-KO combo vs. players that use a character that doesn't have an instant-KO combo.
Uh? Characters in fighting games are never created equal, some are just naturally better. Seems silly to ban certain characters, especially when this is not the only fighting game that has characters that can outright kill with one combo (or a dizzy leading into another combo). And that might not even be the key to getting the highest possible score, so...

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Re: WORLD HEROES problems with 1st position

Post by GHEMANT » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:35 am

Special rules is not necessary for this game. Brocken not have an immediate K.O. with 1 hit, but only big damage with multiple low kick. I don't know other characters with big damage however. But I know this: for top score Brocken is not the best character, and is possible a better score with Rasputin, Janne and Muscle Power.

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