5 Man Asteroids

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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Zhorik
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by Zhorik »

homerwannabee wrote:This is a horrible idea. It's not right. Create a different track if you have to, but it's preposterous to take marathon scores, and only count the first 5 men. Now I am not saying don't create a different 5 man track. I am saying don't castrate some pretty historic marathon scores, and make them 5 man. It would be sort of like saying OK you know all those Marathon times runners have been doing for decades. Well they don't really count anymore. Instead we are only going to count the first 5 miles that all these runners did, and create a new 5 mile standard, and see if modern day runners can beat their 5 mile times.

For instance I can see already the meaning of many scores getting destroyed by a rule change like this. The best example would be Krogman's 20 million point Galaga score. I can't imagine only taking just the first 5 men, and only accepting that. It would be like taking the Mona Lisa, and cutting out just her face, and burning the rest of the painting. Another good example would be the 1942, and 1943 scores. Games that actually have endings, but give out more than 5 men. For many that is a huge accomplishment to get to the very end of these games. With the 5 man rule it's basically throwing that accomplishment into the trash.

This also affects me on a personal level. I take a lot of pride in my 13.95 million point DK3 score. It took me over 10 and a half hours without any breaks to get that score. I didn't go into that game thinking. "Oh I have to get one of my best 5 man starts of all time." There are 37 men given total in the game. What you do in your first 5 men is not a huge priority because it all evens out when you are given that many men.

So here is my suggestion. If you are completely against keeping track of marathon scores, than put all marathon scores in a different category, and suspend taking any more marathon scores. I say suspend because who knows, maybe 15 years from now a different hierarchy will want to keep track of marathon scores again.

I really think this is the wrong path to take. Let's not screw with the historic scores on this website. We owe those who spent their time, and effort on those games that much.
The proposed rule change isn't for Galaga, 1942, 1943 or Donkey Kong 3. As the subject of this thead states, this is for adding a 5-ship Special Rule for just the Asteroids parent romset.

The current top score on the romset is by John McAllister (333,330). John is the arcade marathon record holder on Asteroids, and in his comment he specifically says "Can we get this track to be 5 ship only.......score for 5 ship is 168490". So the guy with the top marathon score on the romset, and who knows marathoning Asteroids better than anybody else on the planet, is asking for the parent romset track to be 5 ship only.

In addition, Dick Moreland, the guy who started this thread, has the current top overall Asteroids marathon score at MARP of 3,511,160 on the asteroid2 romset. So the 2 top marathon Asteroids players at MARP both would like the parent romset to be 5-ships only, and if you want to see a marathon replay, the asteroid2 romset already has a marathon score more than 10x higher than the current marathon score on the parent romset. I'm not sure what "historic scores" you're looking to protect in this case.
homerwannabee wrote: Sides wouldn't going through every single game that gives out more than 5 men, and keeping track of the first 5 men actually be harder than continuing to accept marathon scores. I mean this database has been around now for what 17 years? That is a huge amount of games to go through.
Again, the proposed rule change is only for the parent romset of Asteroids. There are currently only 3 scores on that romset that use more than 5 ships that would need to be adjusted.

-George
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by homerwannabee »

Yeah, I guess I didn't make it totally clear. I was responding to Kernzy's statement "i vote yes. yes for all games."

If he hadn't have said that I probably wouldn't have responded in the thread.
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by BeeJay »

simpsons99 wrote:you just named 3 of the greatest games of all time Crappy.
3 of the greatest in your opinion but that doesn't mean they'd appear on everyone's list of the 3 greatest games of all time. From that same era I'd vote Galaga, Defender, and Gyruss as far superior games to those three in terms of fun to play. I would rate Pacman on a list of most influential games from the classic era, given that it was the major title from that era responsible for bringing some of the gentler sex into video games. But that wouldn't be a consideration I would use for determining "greatest" as the "fun to play" factor would be one of the major contributors to "greatest" in my opinion.
simpsons99 wrote:I know everyone likes different games.
Exactly. That's why Pacman, Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Junior would never be in my top 3 games of all time, because I just don't like them. That's not saying that others can't consider them 3 of the greatest games of all time, it's just that it's perfectly valid for other people to have a different opinion about those games.
simpsons99 wrote:You think your(sic) only talking to my(sic) about dkjr
That was one of three games I mentioned, so clearly I wasn't talking only about that game.
simpsons99 wrote:George likes the game also
Lot's of people do. I don't. That was my point, we're all different which means some of us like, and want, to have more competition on games that are too easy to marathon and some of us don't. Which is fine. What is not fine is telling other people that it's "dumb" to artificially limit scores, especially when some games that you like, and consider to be 3 of the greatest games of all time, are already artificially limited in terms of scoring or "marathonability".

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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by kernzy »

these guys are idiots.
ignore them. a 5 lives score would be a different clone. if they can't see that, then, like i said, they are idiots. jesus.
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by BeeJay »

Getting back on topic, I can see the merit for those who can marathon this game in having one of the sets limited to 5 ships even though I'm unlikely to get into that category.

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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by homerwannabee »

kernzy wrote:these guys are idiots.
ignore them. a 5 lives score would be a different clone. if they can't see that, then, like i said, they are idiots. jesus.
How am I an idiot on this? I said i don't really mind Gyruss, and this 5 Man Asteroids being made 5 man. I responding to your "I vote for all games."

I presumed you meant all games on MARP. You know when people are talking about two games they usually say something like "I vote for BOTH games." All usually means 100 percent. It's not my fault that you didn't explain yourself clearly enough.
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by simpsons99 »

wow we are Idiots huh?

Very Disrespectful of you Paul .

You need to get your head out of your own azz .

I noticed it really does not matter what we think or feel about this site ..

This core group of players mainly from out the USA Will change the site and alter High scores and change history ..

You should really be able to see I really care and love this stuff.. I've only been doing this for 36 years .

I bet most of the people here where not born by this time frame .
kernzy wrote:these guys are idiots.
ignore them. a 5 lives score would be a different clone. if they can't see that, then, like i said, they are idiots. jesus.
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by mahlemiut »

simpsons99 wrote:This core group of players mainly from out the USA
This has what to do with anything?
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by kernzy »

i apologise, chaps. :oops:
it's just this whole thing going round in circles.
the marathon scores will stay as they are. the 5 lives games would be on a different clone of the same game, so there is at least a choice in the matter. i think all long games should have a 5 lives set. i think ALL games should also offer a single life set. it makes playing more fun and more varied. more competition. more goals and more records to achieve. more everything.
having just a single format is the way it has always been. it is time for change. choices are good. no choice is bad.
otherwise, it's just the same old boring time and again. some new fresh challenges are in order. how will we get something new by sticking to last century's ideals?
this is the new age of fast speeds and fast games.
if i was in charge, i'd at least do a few games with 1 life rules, and see what happens...
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by homerwannabee »

kernzy wrote:i apologise, chaps. :oops:
it's just this whole thing going round in circles.
the marathon scores will stay as they are. the 5 lives games would be on a different clone of the same game, so there is at least a choice in the matter. i think all long games should have a 5 lives set. i think ALL games should also offer a single life set. it makes playing more fun and more varied. more competition. more goals and more records to achieve. more everything.
having just a single format is the way it has always been. it is time for change. choices are good. no choice is bad.
otherwise, it's just the same old boring time and again. some new fresh challenges are in order. how will we get something new by sticking to last century's ideals?
this is the new age of fast speeds and fast games.
if i was in charge, i'd at least do a few games with 1 life rules, and see what happens...
OK, I got you. Under your system there would be marathon, 5 man, and one man. From what I understand with MARP there can only be one track of game. I agree with you on that. It would be cool if you could do different variations, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Again, I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you meant replace all long games, and only have the option of a 5 man set since that is how MARP is set up. You can only have one option. I agree with you that it would nice to have a choice, but under the current MARP structure that doesn't seem to be a possibility.
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by KIG666 »

kernzy wrote:i apologise, chaps. :oops:
it's just this whole thing going round in circles.
the marathon scores will stay as they are. the 5 lives games would be on a different clone of the same game, so there is at least a choice in the matter. i think all long games should have a 5 lives set. i think ALL games should also offer a single life set. it makes playing more fun and more varied. more competition. more goals and more records to achieve. more everything.
having just a single format is the way it has always been. it is time for change. choices are good. no choice is bad.
otherwise, it's just the same old boring time and again. some new fresh challenges are in order. how will we get something new by sticking to last century's ideals?
this is the new age of fast speeds and fast games.
if i was in charge, i'd at least do a few games with 1 life rules, and see what happens...
All games would be maybe a bit too much but would be great if we could have at least one clone of every marathonable game as 5 man track to keep those easier games on a competitive level.

It worked for games like Bomb jack,Q*bert and now Gyruss so imo other marathonable games like for example Asteroids should offer such tracks as well.
Most marathonable games have clones so a bit more variety would for sure not hurt.

Really like your 1 man track idea, simply love those extreme tracks competitive gaming is all about testing out your limits.
What could be more challenging than playing with on life on hardest settings ?

I did a test game yesterday on the new 5 man Gyruss track and have already scored 5,3 mios so a 1 man track would be great.
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by BeeJay »

simpsons99 wrote:This core group of players mainly from out the USA Will change the site and alter High scores and change history..
The two main proponents for the change to 5 lives for one of the Gyruss romsets are from outside the US. Most of these games were made outside of the US by non US companies. This site was started by someone from outside the US. So what? What difference does any of this make in the grand scheme of things for Marp. Not a damn thing! This is, and always has been, a website and forum for an international group of game players from multiple countries around the world, linked by a common passion for arcade video games.

Anyone, regardless of nationality, who wants to record a marathon game can record on romsets: gyrussb, gyrussce, venus

Anyone, regardless of nationality, who wants to compete using only 5 lives can record on romset: gyruss

That more than covers the bases for persons wanting to marathon the game versus persons wanting to compete with a "kill screen equivalent" version of the game.

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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by kernzy »

is this a new thing? gaming racism?? lol!
anyhoo, i don't need the moderators at MARP to set this 1 life only set up. i have already started doing it myself, and my competitors followed suit, so it does work. here are the links:

http://replay.marpirc.net/r/invmultip

http://replay.marpirc.net/r/sitv1

http://replay.marpirc.net/r/bombjackt

thats me, Kernzy the innovator, bending the rules to lead new paths in the future of retro gaming!! BAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!! :lol:
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by simpsons99 »

I am just saying anything I am saying does not matter . Everyone wants things the other way. So It will come down to sooner or later .. I will stop submitting scores . Like others have done in the past .
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Re: 5 Man Asteroids

Post by xelnia »

simpsons99 wrote:I am just saying anything I am saying does not matter . Everyone wants things the other way. So It will come down to sooner or later .. I will stop submitting scores . Like others have done in the past .
Actually, what you say does matter. This is a community that is trying to have reasoned discussions and votes regarding the tracking of scores. You've just done a horrible job at convincing others that your way is the right way. Then, when you don't get your way you act like a child, throw a tantrum, threaten to leave (how many forums have you left now?), and make xenophobic accusations implying that being from outside the USA is a factor in the validity of the scoreboard.

Based on that kind of behavior it's not shocking that no one listens to you. Here's a thought: formulate a well-reasoned argument against the 5-man Asteroids track and present it in this thread. "Well-reasoned" means you actually have to back up your argument with some logical reasoning...not just whining and complaining. Then, regardless of how people react to your argument, accept the decision with grace.
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