Check this replay for 1st place by nibbler69...second place likely similar but I haven't viewed that one...check that too.
http://marp.retrogames.com/r/korosuke
all nibbler does is sit then roll back and forth exploiting a bug in this particular rom set/program.
he doesn't advance levels....and has no intention of clearing even the first screen.
I think this tactic shouldn't be allowed to that extent...shows very little skill for this rom set.
This rom set is very challenging if you don't exploit that bug and try and clear levels and yes..still roll a few but not in that buggy fashion...at least not intentionally. I just played 5 games of it all reaching around 10-150k playing it straight up and not having that flaw occur once...so it's easy to avoid.
whatcha think?
korosuke---leechfest
Moderator: BBH
the .inp file was recorded
Monday, August 20, 2007, 4:05:32 PM
i could look to see who confirmed it.
the amount of leeching and game-type
reminds me of the naughty boy debate.
ln2, i have been trying to exceed a 53k
pirahna older version recording of yours.
Monday, August 20, 2007, 4:05:32 PM
i could look to see who confirmed it.
the amount of leeching and game-type
reminds me of the naughty boy debate.
ln2, i have been trying to exceed a 53k
pirahna older version recording of yours.
- Attachments
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- nibbler 69
- koro0000.png (2.33 KiB) Viewed 7085 times
Yeah these both 1rst and 2nd are clearly one level only. But it also seems like you can sneak a lot of points out of a level and still progress, with out someone looking at each level closely, i.e. I proly confirmed them not really looking closely at the level progress and because the throttle goes so fast. (Note confirming is only confirming of playbackability to a certain score, it does *NOT* confirm the score as validly accepted and non-leeching)
Last edited by Chad on Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
-skito
yes, you can roll them on each level to a certain extent....then they won't allow you to roll over them anymore...they back off.
...which is sort of what that one is doing...backing off...but there is something odd with the code in that rom set where it twitches in that spot just far enough off the roller so you can roll back and not get killed most of the time so when you roll back the other way you get some phantom 100 points then the enemy "warps" to the middle area where you can roll him for real and get 9000 each time.
it's a bug...you can't do that with any of the other clones of make trax.
try it yourself with that korosuke rom set then try it with any other make trax clone to see the correct roller behavior.
the question for korosuke is where would you draw the line.
perhaps just something where if you get that phantom 100 points and then roll back for 9000 pts more than twice in an entire game, then your score is rejected.
I say twice because I can see a scenario where you just accidentally do it to avoid a death from the second enemy.
...which is sort of what that one is doing...backing off...but there is something odd with the code in that rom set where it twitches in that spot just far enough off the roller so you can roll back and not get killed most of the time so when you roll back the other way you get some phantom 100 points then the enemy "warps" to the middle area where you can roll him for real and get 9000 each time.
it's a bug...you can't do that with any of the other clones of make trax.
try it yourself with that korosuke rom set then try it with any other make trax clone to see the correct roller behavior.
the question for korosuke is where would you draw the line.
perhaps just something where if you get that phantom 100 points and then roll back for 9000 pts more than twice in an entire game, then your score is rejected.
I say twice because I can see a scenario where you just accidentally do it to avoid a death from the second enemy.
Re: korosuke---leechfest
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/4/5/e/ax ... olf106.zip
Now , a couple of in favor points to make.
i believe this game to be a valid example of skill and endurance.
i know first hand how elusive and cunning the two fish can be.
against .inp
he remains on first board the entire time ,
uses horizontal tunnel to corral fish into one & up to second tube(vertical) at top to smash the pair of fish.
not easy at all, but possible as this recording demonstrates.
i would care to see how LN2 sees the matter ,
he has 2nd place with half a million.
Now , a couple of in favor points to make.
i believe this game to be a valid example of skill and endurance.
i know first hand how elusive and cunning the two fish can be.
against .inp
he remains on first board the entire time ,
uses horizontal tunnel to corral fish into one & up to second tube(vertical) at top to smash the pair of fish.
not easy at all, but possible as this recording demonstrates.
i would care to see how LN2 sees the matter ,
he has 2nd place with half a million.
Re: korosuke---leechfest
sure tar, but it's exploiting a bug in that program. It is not the intention of the game to have 1 of them get "stuck" and twitch where you can easily roll over them by going back and forth until you get them. sure, slight chance of death there...but little.
view any other rom set and you will not see that happenig because it isn't possible.
just referring to korosuke romset there.
I see nibbler has beaten some of the scores I submitted a couple days ago...will beat him back of course cuz I can get 1+ million on most of the rom sets within a few games...but time limited so we will see.
normal reaction of the "ghosts" is after you have run over them so many times, they become scared of it where it is difficult to virtually impossible to roll over them again....until you get to the next level....at higher levels, you can roll over them twice...hopefully grouped so you get 9000 4 times with 2 rolls....after that you can't get them again until you get to the next level.
I clear through the levels taking the ghost roll points when they present themselves...otherwise I just clear the level.
view any other rom set and you will not see that happenig because it isn't possible.
just referring to korosuke romset there.
I see nibbler has beaten some of the scores I submitted a couple days ago...will beat him back of course cuz I can get 1+ million on most of the rom sets within a few games...but time limited so we will see.
normal reaction of the "ghosts" is after you have run over them so many times, they become scared of it where it is difficult to virtually impossible to roll over them again....until you get to the next level....at higher levels, you can roll over them twice...hopefully grouped so you get 9000 4 times with 2 rolls....after that you can't get them again until you get to the next level.
I clear through the levels taking the ghost roll points when they present themselves...otherwise I just clear the level.
Re: korosuke---leechfest
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/a/9/0/ax ... olf106.zipLN2 wrote:I see nibbler has beaten some of the scores I submitted a couple days ago...
and i see that mr.nibbler has taken the lead on crush roller (Krural TWT) a couple of hours ago...
nice 479k btw
willing to bet its a uhm , Leechfest !
gonna check it out in the morning
peace y'all
it is 10pm
tar
Re: korosuke---leechfest
buenas noche, nibblers' recording is confirmed leechfest 2008. I would assume this is against the rules. Did we slash these kinds of recs in the past. Ln2's is legit bytw, i watched it all.
-skito
Re: korosuke---leechfest
thx chad....think if he actually combined what he is doing along with clearing levels then maybe it would be gray enough to accept what he is doing...but with no plans on even clearing the first board....total leech trick...knew you could do that but didn't have it streamlined to the point he has plus felt that isn't fair not having the challenge.
as you can see from mine...doing normal rolling(no back-n-forth) you can get 2 sets of roll-overs per screen....after that...they back off when they sense the threat of being rolled over....but on that first screen they are so slow you can take advantage like nibbler does.
on later levels when they move faster...don't think he could do that but would have to test.
however, even there...his scoring is limited IMHO....although he had 400k on last man.
I play it a bit more I will be in the 1-2 million range like I used to be.
no time to play until Saturday...if even time then.
goal if I get to Funspot this fall is to set new WR on the Make Trax there. think WR-arcade is around 2.3 or 2.5 million with 3 start men.
as you can see from mine...doing normal rolling(no back-n-forth) you can get 2 sets of roll-overs per screen....after that...they back off when they sense the threat of being rolled over....but on that first screen they are so slow you can take advantage like nibbler does.
on later levels when they move faster...don't think he could do that but would have to test.
however, even there...his scoring is limited IMHO....although he had 400k on last man.
I play it a bit more I will be in the 1-2 million range like I used to be.
no time to play until Saturday...if even time then.
goal if I get to Funspot this fall is to set new WR on the Make Trax there. think WR-arcade is around 2.3 or 2.5 million with 3 start men.
Re: korosuke---leechfest
ok, we have a definite problem here... I kinda feel bad for Nibbler69 wasting an hour and a half of his life to play it and not go past the first stage 
So my question is, what are the official rules that should be in place to keep people moving and making progress in the game? I know the paint roller kills max out at 9000, should we allow someone to reach that value once, and then DQ if they continue going for more 9K kills? Time limit per level? Throw out the regular scoring system and change MARP scores so that a substantial bonus is given for each level cleared? I'm not sure what to do here as I don't know all that much about this game.
So my question is, what are the official rules that should be in place to keep people moving and making progress in the game? I know the paint roller kills max out at 9000, should we allow someone to reach that value once, and then DQ if they continue going for more 9K kills? Time limit per level? Throw out the regular scoring system and change MARP scores so that a substantial bonus is given for each level cleared? I'm not sure what to do here as I don't know all that much about this game.
Re: korosuke---leechfest
Timelimit seems ok, but i think the simplest thing to do is to reward a million or more for each level cleared, keeping the precision of the bonus out of the regular scoring for most people and you don't have to disqualify any recordings. Something must be done about this because it's clearly against the leeching rules. Phil?
-skito
Re: korosuke---leechfest
ok, for crush and most of the clones, even at higher levels once even the first rollover gets you 9000, you can rollover 2 sets of both grouped tightly at max.
...so that's 36k there....then get another 3-4k max from clearing the board and getting the object that comes out and makes a mess of things.
...so that would be about 40k per board...
on maketrax and a couple other clones, you get a bonus score for clearing...starts at 1000 for 1st board and goes up to max of 9000 per board on 9th and beyond levels so max score then is near 50k/board.
heck, I would be fine going well about that...so max allowed 75k or even 100k/board cleared...so in the case of nibbler's all his scores would be reset to 75k or 100k since he never gets beyond the first screen.
I still have not tested for it but think what he is doing does not work beyond the first board where getting any beyond 4 while possible is very unlikely. All the best players playing the game straight up have pointed this out for later levels....can get 4...but then can't get anymore that board.
please don't make an award like 1 million per level. that would destroy someone just clearing boards versus at least trying to group and get a couple rollovers for 9000 each. most of the men I lose when playing well are from mistiming the move to rollover them. I would play it quite differently just to clear boards.
the scoring of the game is fine...
...so that's 36k there....then get another 3-4k max from clearing the board and getting the object that comes out and makes a mess of things.
...so that would be about 40k per board...
on maketrax and a couple other clones, you get a bonus score for clearing...starts at 1000 for 1st board and goes up to max of 9000 per board on 9th and beyond levels so max score then is near 50k/board.
heck, I would be fine going well about that...so max allowed 75k or even 100k/board cleared...so in the case of nibbler's all his scores would be reset to 75k or 100k since he never gets beyond the first screen.
I still have not tested for it but think what he is doing does not work beyond the first board where getting any beyond 4 while possible is very unlikely. All the best players playing the game straight up have pointed this out for later levels....can get 4...but then can't get anymore that board.
please don't make an award like 1 million per level. that would destroy someone just clearing boards versus at least trying to group and get a couple rollovers for 9000 each. most of the men I lose when playing well are from mistiming the move to rollover them. I would play it quite differently just to clear boards.
the scoring of the game is fine...
-
Phil Lamat
- Regulation Coordinator
- Posts: 2076
- Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:19 am
Re: korosuke---leechfest
Clearly leeching, yes.Chad wrote:Timelimit seems ok, but i think the simplest thing to do is to reward a million or more for each level cleared, keeping the precision of the bonus out of the regular scoring for most people and you don't have to disqualify any recordings. Something must be done about this because it's clearly against the leeching rules. Phil?
My first thought was like Chad to reward 1 million for each level cleared, but :
1- does korosuke display number of level played ? I don't see it for stage 1
2- I saw Rick's comment on spoiling the grouping method with such a bonus, and he's probably right (like Matt I'm not very familiar with this game)
So ? maybe time limit or points limit for a level (but not easy for confirmers), or simply DQ them ? I don't know ;
maybe needs a poll
Question for Rick:
you say this can only be done with korosuke ? but I see a 1.8M+ on crush with this method (all stage 1 too)
Re: korosuke---leechfest
phil, nibbler is doing similar for all of the clones of crush now. korosuke's was different and a flaw in the game versus the others.
...the others he has a system of getting one on the vertical rollover over and over again...essentially 4-ever.
he has no intention of ever clearing the first board...just doing that same thing over and over...til all men gone.
can't clearly do a timelimit either since the object that comes out to make a mess of the maze adds time to clean up after him and if you get it or not. on 1 of the clones it never goes away until you get it....which sometimes can be several minutes.
I think a ruling could allow minimal leeching on first board...maybe work it up to 9000 but then no more.
once on later boards where you get 9000 for each rollover already, maybe no limit needed there because all best players have not found a way to get more than 4. I think I got 5 on a level once but it was such a freak timing thing and tad of luck I doubt anyone would seriously go for that versus clear the board and get 2 easier groups and rollovers on the next board.
...the others he has a system of getting one on the vertical rollover over and over again...essentially 4-ever.
he has no intention of ever clearing the first board...just doing that same thing over and over...til all men gone.
can't clearly do a timelimit either since the object that comes out to make a mess of the maze adds time to clean up after him and if you get it or not. on 1 of the clones it never goes away until you get it....which sometimes can be several minutes.
I think a ruling could allow minimal leeching on first board...maybe work it up to 9000 but then no more.
once on later boards where you get 9000 for each rollover already, maybe no limit needed there because all best players have not found a way to get more than 4. I think I got 5 on a level once but it was such a freak timing thing and tad of luck I doubt anyone would seriously go for that versus clear the board and get 2 easier groups and rollovers on the next board.