[poll canceled]New rule, using multiple button mapping

[mahlemiut]

Mapping the same key to do two different actions at the same time isn't cheating.

Ok, so you're playing your favourite beat-em-up, you need to use a special move, performed by pushing two buttons together. If you have a single key to do this, are you not virtually eliminating any possible error in performing the move, making the game that much easier. Making it easier for yourself over others is fair for those others?

[QRS]

Mapping the same key to do two different actions at the same time isn't cheating.

Ok... you have said that more than 10 times now.. here is something for you to think about:

SOME PEOPLE AT MARP THINK OF MAPPING 2 KEYS TO ONE AS CHEATING.

Do you understand? Different opinions. Comprende? Have I told you 10 times that it is cheating? Have I tried to force you to think in another way? I know your opinion and respect it. but I don't agree. Can you at least TRY to act like a grown up and respect an opinion that is the opposite of yours? Oh and note that I don't even mention my personal opinion here (though you already know it) why? Because it has nothing to do with my point!

Without blaming Tommi for doing his job as the regulation co. Oh and btw, he is not admin here. He tries to enforce rules/make new ones etc. Try and read the rules/staff page and come back. I think you have a lot to learn about MARP.

As you ignored my friendly reminder I consider this your first warning. Don't make me do a second. From here on I want to see mature posts with constructive points. You are a great player. Stick with that, behave and have fun. Do I make myself clear?

[TRB_MetroidTeam]

* Allow any kind of key remapping Y/N. If yes then ignore the rest.
* Allow mapping of 1 function to many keys Y/N
* Allow mapping of many functions to one key Y/N
* Allow mapping of one key for diagonals Y/N
* Allow mapping of Up and Jump to one key for platform games Y/N
* Allow mapping of simultaneous key presses to one key at the special ship selection screen like Raiden Fighters
* Disallow multimapping for fighter games Y/N
* Deal on case by case basis Y/N, eg. Crazy Climber, Assault, Track & Field, Battlezone.
* Some games have multifunction keymapping built into the emulation. Eg. Battlezone, Defender. Allow those? Y/N

My vote (I dont know if this pool is locked or not!!!): The rules need to be added. NO... no one type of mapping would be allowed!
Ok, to fun purposes only (not for challenge) I like a lot to map 2 buttons to one, mainly that SNK fighting games... but for competition purposes at MARP, all the mappings would may be disallowed.

[TRB_MetroidTeam]

diagonals is another question, but i think would be DISALLOWED too.

[MJS]

They says "buy better keyboard" or arcade stick. My keyboard cost $10, very good keyboard cost in pl even $55 [256 MB that's more requaired for my PC costs $30, i haven't money even for that] Even when I buy very good keyboard i haven't certitude that keboard hasn't key-collisions. I haven't chanse to test it before buying.

I bought my keyboard for 10 $ (that's 3 u$s) and it registers more keypresses than you'll ever need. It's an old BTC-53 (one of those with the 'macro' key).

So stop saying you are poor, and besides, as QRS said:

If you have an advantage with better equipment.. so be it.. it is the same everywhere in life. Old car, new car etc.. There is no point to make up for that by cheating (which IMHO mapping two buttons to one and vice verse is)

[MJS]

It is a good thing to prevent abuse, still tolerance is a wise thing, too. I say it should be judged if there is unfair advantage by double-mapping. Make special rules.

Well said.
But if it were up to me, I would let them remap whatever they want... I don't think you can gain much advantage from it.

If you want big advantage get a Happ's Competition Joystick 8-way with a SlikStik stainless steel handle!
http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/slik_newhandles.html

[BlackTMH]

If you want big advantage get a Happ's Competition Joystick 8-way with a SlikStik stainless steel handle!

Nice toys But SlikStick have sick prices. I can build own complette arcade controller, and his price will be near $65 [1 joy, 6+2 buttons, USB connection].

[kuba]

look at AVI on this site. they on avi show how it has to walk well......for me then they walk tragically. after 15 minutes playing your hand will come off - joystick it works very hard. and this all for deadly price.

[Pegasus]

But if it were up to me, I would let them remap whatever they want... I don't think you can gain much advantage from it.

Yeah, difficult to see any real advantage gained. For fighting-games and beat'em ups - in every game where you can pull off different moves by pushing two buttons at the exact same time, agreed that it's a small advantage. Nothing that a master on these games should be worried about, though.

Adjusting Analog-Controls has a much bigger impact on gameplay. That can not be changed or controlled reasonably.

[Pegasus]

One more thing, I have done a check on two of WRX2's Xevious inps (xeviousb and xeviousc), and yes it seems quite clear now, through some testing, that they do use both buttons mapped to one key.

So do you think if the rule gets through, it should be zeroed? While I really don't care about the rule, IMHO that would be a bad side-effect.

I understand that MARP should be as close as possible to the arcade-experience. But wouln't it be enough to say that, if multiple controls are mapped to one button, the resulting move must not be a different one than pressed seperately. That would rule out diagonals, too.

Maybe this way, everybody could be happy?

[Weehawk]

So do you think if the rule gets through, it should be zeroed? While I really don't care about the rule, IMHO that would be a bad side-effect.

You do understand that if it were zeroed, the recording would still be there, it would merely have a score of zero?

Even deleted recordings (WRX2 might delete it if it were zeroed) are still in MARP's storage if you know the address to fetch it with.

[Pegasus]

You do understand that if it were zeroed, the recording would still be there, it would merely have a score of zero?

Yes, I knew that. But its value would be somewhat diminished. Personally I never download zeroed inps, but that's of little importance here.

I have no problem with the rule, it's ok to add it. It only gives me headaches to see some good records go, because these players knew nothing about it at the time . Personally I would turn a blind eye on it...

[The TJT]

I see situation being 16-14 for new rules(even though "cancelled"). Do you guys feel we need still new polls...if yes side wins?

It's not so easy to do the right thing here. Maybe right would be to make new polls since promised...but the pain making new poll and hearing same comments over again

These are only general rules, that can be override by game specific general rules, at awkward cases.
Blind eye...possible...but I can't really say that, can I...

[Weehawk]

I see situation being 16-14 for new rules(even though "cancelled"). Do you guys feel we need still new polls...if yes side wins?

It's not so easy to do the right thing here. Maybe right would be to make new polls since promised...but the pain making new poll and hearing same comments over again

These are only general rules, that can be override by game specific general rules, at awkward cases.
Blind eye...possible...but I can't really say that, can I...

Horrified as I was by the size of the "no" contingent, it wouldn't be right to cancel the poll when it was going poorly and uncancel it when it starts to go well.

We really need to resolve this issue, however.

I note in the WCC forum that Phil has opined:

...as there isn't YET any rule against that on Marp, I'm forced to allow such inputs for WCC.

I disagree strenuously. As I have already pointed out, the type of mapping at issue here, in my opinion, is already in violation of current rules. Since there is obviously different interpretive opinon however, we need to make it explicit one way or the other whether this is allowed. "Yes, it's allowed." or "No, it's not allowed."

And I would very much like Zwaxy to offer his opinion on the subject, as I feel that to change the rules to allow this type of manipulation not available to a normal user of an arcade machine would be a knife in the very heart of MARP's purpose.

[The TJT]

Horrified as I was by the size of the "no" contingent, it wouldn't be right to cancel the poll when it was going poorly and uncancel it when it starts to go well.

Thanks for help, that's was the answer I was waiting for. Guess we need a new poll then. My logic to the question was...Poll was "cancelled" because it seemed there was somekind of group voting for no...then if yes would win, would the problem cease to exist...

And I would very much like Zwaxy to offer his opinion on the subject, as I feel that to change the rules to allow this type of manipulation not available to a normal user of an arcade machine would be a knife in the very heart of MARP's purpose.

Zwaxy has usually been letting marpers decide by themselves, sometimes taking part of the discussion, sometimes not...But I don't recall him really telling marpers what to do.
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b. May edit any regulation rule at any time by a majority vote. However, if the general public agreed to a rule in regulation play at any point, the editors must have a 2/3 vote of all editors in order to change.