Negative
The furthest I was able to circle an atom more than once was round six and that couldn't be maintained for more than a few rotations. I feel fairly certain that it would be near impossible to leech after round 7 and completely out of reach by round 9.
Quantum leeching
Moderator: BBH
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Francois Daniel
- MARP Seer
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As I said before, it's not a problem for me to begin at level 9. As we make in WCCWeehawk wrote:"Until now" being key.Francois wrote:
I think Francois and Blost were the only ones dissenting. If they're conceding I don't think we need to bother with a poll, otherwise I will certainly vote for starting at level 9 for regulation play.
Francois
Last chance for discussion.
Have we reached enough of a consensus on a Special Rule requiring that one starts on level 9, and the disqualification of all recordings engaging in the leeching?
MARP Rule #2.f reads:
f) Point or life leeching is strongly discouraged, and banned on some games, as described in the banned techniques list. You cannot continuously gain points without some degree of risk and you must keep moving to complete a level.
So this can be done without a poll.
One knotty point: any recording starting at a lower level made before the Special Rule which does not engage in the leeching was not in violation of any rule, and does not have any competitive advantage over those playing after the Special Rule and therefore, in my opinion, should not be disqualified.
Have we reached enough of a consensus on a Special Rule requiring that one starts on level 9, and the disqualification of all recordings engaging in the leeching?
MARP Rule #2.f reads:
f) Point or life leeching is strongly discouraged, and banned on some games, as described in the banned techniques list. You cannot continuously gain points without some degree of risk and you must keep moving to complete a level.
So this can be done without a poll.
One knotty point: any recording starting at a lower level made before the Special Rule which does not engage in the leeching was not in violation of any rule, and does not have any competitive advantage over those playing after the Special Rule and therefore, in my opinion, should not be disqualified.
John Cunningham (JTC)
Even though that general rule exists, polls have had to been done for several cases of leeching in the past also. I don't understand it myself as the general rule should cover it, but that's how it's been done the past couple of years.Weehawk wrote:MARP Rule #2.f reads:
f) Point or life leeching is strongly discouraged, and banned on some games, as described in the banned techniques list. You cannot continuously gain points without some degree of risk and you must keep moving to complete a level.
So this can be done without a poll.
It sounds like there is enough consensus though where a poll on this will likely pass. First, I would be more about pushing for a simple majority to pass a specific game rule change versus the 2/3rds currently required.
Once that is passed then it makes all future polls for special rules for specific games much easier to deal with.
In my opinion, there is no need for poll, this has been discussed already...Actually this is just what I expect regulation coordinator(RC) to do. Actually role of the RC is not very clear. Previous RC was QT Quazar, and first he seemed ok making things happen...later he didn't care about what others said...he was cancelling votes...and confirming rights!etc...dictatorship...He got FIRED later on.
After that incident I really thought we dont need RC here...but maybe something like that is needed, I was not very happy with how preloads case was handled, too soft, nobody knew whos job it was to do something. Anyway, thanks to Chad for hes work at autofire detection front!
And we have cases like this, all agree it's ok to enforce a rule like this, but nobody actually does something.
If there is controversy on rule forcing at some case, then voting is appropriate....Meaning some marpers think that it's ok to leech/cheat like that...Then surely there should be a vote, to avoid dictatorship.
Anyway the role of RC is just to do things like this. Get rid of cheats and enforce the rules of marp. No point asking every clear cut case here...just email those whose recordings are zeroed, I think that's more polite than to just leave it in recording description.
I think this is clear cut case to start with removing some recordings that don't follow the spirit of the game. If somebody thinks differently...that enforcing this rule is not necessary, speak now.
If somebody is not satisfied with RC doings, he can allways make a poll himself. I think clear cut leech cases should not allways be discussed and polled to death...that way nothing happens.
JTC, Try find good balance between enforcing rules by yourself and asking/polling marpers. Use common sense, I believe you have that plenty.
I think this thread is just what we need...first ask...then action.
That 2/3 rule is wrong for trick/leech polls(It's okayish for changing general marp rules imo)...everyone knows it....And I think that was not even voted here...maybe that should be your next case(aside from banning preload from any games where autofire is possible, hehe).
One of RC's tasks has been, and could still be making discussion and polls about marp rules.
And for God's sake...take a vacation from confirming scores
Thanks, and good luck,
Tommi
After that incident I really thought we dont need RC here...but maybe something like that is needed, I was not very happy with how preloads case was handled, too soft, nobody knew whos job it was to do something. Anyway, thanks to Chad for hes work at autofire detection front!
And we have cases like this, all agree it's ok to enforce a rule like this, but nobody actually does something.
If there is controversy on rule forcing at some case, then voting is appropriate....Meaning some marpers think that it's ok to leech/cheat like that...Then surely there should be a vote, to avoid dictatorship.
Anyway the role of RC is just to do things like this. Get rid of cheats and enforce the rules of marp. No point asking every clear cut case here...just email those whose recordings are zeroed, I think that's more polite than to just leave it in recording description.
I think this is clear cut case to start with removing some recordings that don't follow the spirit of the game. If somebody thinks differently...that enforcing this rule is not necessary, speak now.
If somebody is not satisfied with RC doings, he can allways make a poll himself. I think clear cut leech cases should not allways be discussed and polled to death...that way nothing happens.
JTC, Try find good balance between enforcing rules by yourself and asking/polling marpers. Use common sense, I believe you have that plenty.
I think this thread is just what we need...first ask...then action.
That 2/3 rule is wrong for trick/leech polls(It's okayish for changing general marp rules imo)...everyone knows it....And I think that was not even voted here...maybe that should be your next case(aside from banning preload from any games where autofire is possible, hehe).
One of RC's tasks has been, and could still be making discussion and polls about marp rules.
And for God's sake...take a vacation from confirming scores
Thanks, and good luck,
Tommi
I think because previous RC did not do what he was meant to do.LN2 wrote:Even though that general rule exists, polls have had to been done for several cases of leeching in the past also. I don't understand it myself as the general rule should cover it, but that's how it's been done the past couple of years.
Difficult for one editor to start deleting recordings if they are not clearly using autofire slowdown or such non-discussable(is that a word, heh)clear cases against rules.
I agree 2/3 of what you're sayingIt sounds like there is enough consensus though where a poll on this will likely pass. First, I would be more about pushing for a simple majority to pass a specific game rule change versus the 2/3rds currently required.
Once that is passed then it makes all future polls for special rules for specific games much easier to deal with.
in the general case I agree, but I don't agree in this specific case.The TJT wrote:In my opinion, there is no need for poll, this has been discussed already...Actually this is just what I expect regulation coordinator(RC) to do.
This is going beyond just saying you can't leech. it's adding a SPECIAL RULE for the game that you MUST start at level 9.
Sure, that is so the leeching trick really isn't all that possible, but it's going beyond just what the general leeching rule states. The general rule would cover the RC making decisions that specific inps had too excessive leeching in an inp so was zeroed.
This will be a special rule where ANY inp starting at any level other than level 9 for Quantum and it's clones will be zeroed...whether they leeched or not.
I think that requires a poll....but should be a simple majority to pass...not 2/3rds.
...so I hope we first address the 2/3rd vs simple majority issue for setting special rules for games.
I agree the RC should have the duty of zeroing any inp of any game where he feels it's a clear case of excessive leeching where the gamer isn't making strides to progress the game and there is no timer involved.
This quantum special rule of warping to level 9 to start a game is more than that.
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Buttermaker
- MARP Seer
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Okay, we'll start by disqualifying the following recordings:
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/b/4/e/qq ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/2/2/2/bs ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/8/1/b/wf ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/1/a/c/qq ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/7/c/6/bs ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/5/0/c/qq ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/2/9/a/bs ... wolf76.zip
Bear in mind this will take more than one pass because some of the players improved upon their leeched scores, and the previous ones will come back when these are removed.
Also, I believe Dax had the high score on some or all of these legitimately before the leeching started, so we will sort of have to "peel back" until we get to the non-leeching recordings.
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/b/4/e/qq ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/2/2/2/bs ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/8/1/b/wf ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/1/a/c/qq ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/7/c/6/bs ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/5/0/c/qq ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/2/9/a/bs ... wolf76.zip
Bear in mind this will take more than one pass because some of the players improved upon their leeched scores, and the previous ones will come back when these are removed.
Also, I believe Dax had the high score on some or all of these legitimately before the leeching started, so we will sort of have to "peel back" until we get to the non-leeching recordings.
John Cunningham (JTC)
are you deleting just those that leeched, or are you deleting all that don't warp and start on level 9?
The general rule allows you IMHO to delete ones that leech, but doesn't allow you to just delete any that didn't warp to level 9...if they didn't leech.
Looking at some of the scores it seems unlikely they warped to level 9 cuz the score is too low.
requiring to warp to level 9 is a special rule that I think still needs a poll instead of the RC just adding it.
I see that special rule was added..but don't think you can do that without a poll result.
you can DQ inps based on the general excessive leeching rule without that special rule.
The general rule allows you IMHO to delete ones that leech, but doesn't allow you to just delete any that didn't warp to level 9...if they didn't leech.
Looking at some of the scores it seems unlikely they warped to level 9 cuz the score is too low.
requiring to warp to level 9 is a special rule that I think still needs a poll instead of the RC just adding it.
I see that special rule was added..but don't think you can do that without a poll result.
you can DQ inps based on the general excessive leeching rule without that special rule.
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Buttermaker
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If I remember right, Zwaxy did. QT did remove polls, cancelled my confirmation rights without good reason...wanted to dictate rules of hes own for games etc. He was starting to act like dictator here, no need for such here. This is only a site about videogames, everything should be decided together between players here.Buttermaker wrote:Who fired him?The TJT wrote:He got FIRED later on.
Why you ask...
