bm4thmix splits needed

***PL*** · Post by ***PL*** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:50 am

You guys seem to want to split this game based on expert courses. FINE! But don't ask to make splits based on BOTH Difficulty AND Courses. You'll find at MARP there are no such splits such as...

xyz--easy--course A
xyz--easy--course B
xyz--med--course A
xyz--med--course B
xyz--hard--course A
xyz--hard--course B

If this game is going to become so popular, then we should force expert play only and have splits just at that level. Afterall this would give the highest scores and make the scoring issue for non-expert levels moot.

Zwaxy · Post by **Zwaxy** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:20 pm

As far as I've seen, these beatmania games seem to have the two 'easy' modes where you can choose pretty much whichever songs you want, and then several 'expert' courses. It's kind of as if the first two difficulty levels are for beginners - once you've learnt the game you probably wouldn't play them.

If we're only going to split on one thing, either difficulty or course, then I say split on course, but isn't the reason we've never had a split like this on MARP before that no other game has this kind of structure?

Think of the first two difficulty levels as being like the easy level in the pang games. You know, how most of the pang games have a very short tutorial mode, a 'panic' mode and the full game? Well, beatmania has 2 short 'learning' modes, then the full game, which has 6 different courses.

Chris.

DeSangre · Post by **DeSangre** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:48 pm

***PL*** wrote:You guys seem to want to split this game based on expert courses. FINE! But don't ask to make splits based on BOTH Difficulty AND Courses. You'll find at MARP there are no such splits such as...
xyz--easy--course A
...
xyz--hard--course B

BASIC - HARD and EXPERT are game "modes" not difficulties.
In BASIC and HARD you don't have courses, so what you fear won't be happening anyway.
The splits would be:
BAS;HRD;EX1;EX2;EX3;EX4;EX5;EX6
That's all

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:35 pm

yeah, what Zwaxy and DeSangre said.

the Expert Courses are just that, they're playable only on Expert mode. You can't play the "courses" on Basic or Hard. So all the splitting is confined to that.

bmclean · Post by **bmclean** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:38 pm

Agreed. Basic and Hard are their own 'games' where you can pick your own songs as you progress. You only get four songs per game (assuming you pass as you go!)

Expert courses are set courses where you play certain songs on certain difficulties. There is no ability to change anything other than what course you pick. These are scored different from Basic and Hard, and also have their own scoreboards on the machine that are separate from the 'normal' modes of play, which is why we wanted this split in the first place.

Thanks for hearing us out.

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:22 pm

I disagree on this, basic and hard for bm4thmix are nearly the same if not identical in song selection possibilities.

Here is an example of two recordings for basic and hard that actually share 2 identical songs: Paranoia Max (Dirty Mix), and Take Control. Desangre (who rips the turn tables wicked by the way) "could" have picked all 4 the same songs but didn't.

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/1/4/f/gr ... wolf76.zip
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/2/6/4/gr ... wolf76.zip

Expert mode should definitley be split, even though Brians recording first song was Paranoia Max, heh. But why have two splits for different difficulties of what really looks to be the same game (basic and hard) and not even a different course. Yeah you can pick different songs in different orders between hard and easy but the song selections are the same if you compare all stage selections, at least with b4thmix. bbh, this was my question earlier. not that any of this matters after the fact that they have been split, but just issueing facts.

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:52 pm

well, the difference between Basic and Hard is that there are more notes to play in songs, and you get less groove bar for hitting correct notes and lose more bar for Poors on Hard.

Is that reason enough to have Basic and Hard splits? Maybe not. I certainly don't think it's anywhere near as crucial as having the Expert courses split. But it creates a problem in the scoring system. Take DeSangre's recordings there... 703k on Basic, 627k on Hard. If recordings in either mode were allowed and lumped into one, the 703k score would stand. But... I (and I'm sure nearly everyone else) would find scores/replays on Hard mode to be more interesting, since the songs are more difficult.

So what's the solution? Well, if we can pass a vote to use EX scoring instead of the game's flawed scoring system, we wouldn't have this problem at all. People who play on Basic can still submit scores, but the more skilled players on Hard would be getting the higher scores they deserve because they are playing harder songs.

That's the solution I find the most reasonable.

One romset for Basic/Hard mode using EX scoring
and then the splits for each Expert Course (which also use EX scoring, of course).

I sure hope we can resolve this soon... as I've finally managed to finish DL'ing the .chd for 4th Mix :P now it's just a matter of finding a comfortable way to play... until I find a PSX USB converter that doesn't lag like a mofo, it's keyboard play for me... :(

evil_angela · Post by **evil_angela** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:23 pm

We also need splits for beatmania complete mix and core remix. They are structured the same way that 4th mix is, it appears. (I haven't got 4th mix, just the other two)

gamerya · Post by **gamerya** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:25 pm

evil_angela wrote:We also need splits for beatmania complete mix and core remix. They are structured the same way that 4th mix is, it appears. (I haven't got 4th mix, just the other two)

i agree. although i'm yet to play the other 2.