mhavoc and it's clones

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

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Should warping(entering warp codes) be allowed for Major Havoc and all it's clones?

Poll ended at Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:42 pm

Yes, allowing warping.
8
62%
No, ban warping and play the game from level 1.
5
38%
 
Total votes : 13

Postby LN2 » Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:58 am

zlk wrote:I am for warping. If it is good enough for TWINGALAXIES, then how on Earth could it not be good enough for me? :D

yes, good case in point here...but as mentioned before they have scores in the 1.4-1.6 million range...so if you warp to level 13 where you start at 950,000, you are getting to see likely 10+ levels of the game played to get up to 1.4-1.6 million.

That makes it worthwhile to watch. The control of this game in MAME with that analog overflow "bug" just makes getting those kinds of scores very difficult to nearly impossible. With the arcade controls you had a lot more control.

The other aspect is we aren't just talking the released Major Havoc you would find in arcades here...but these clones also. A couple of the clones have NO shield use for the maze. This makes things far more difficult.

It's looking like from the early vote that warping will still be allowed. oh well... I always looked at it if the player was skilled enough they would easily play through all the early levels and get to the high levels anyway.
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Postby LN2 » Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:06 am

Q.T.Quazar wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

man, sometimes i don't even know why i bother...


hehe....I knew that would get a lauhg out of you. i was asking that question in jest. Of course I know you are a confirmer here. Anyone that sees the playability forum...especially the past few weeks...knows you are a confirmer...and doing a lot of confirming.

I actually have had requests to correct or zero scores not done yet because you are keeping them too busy doing all of yours.
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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:54 pm

oh, so you have a mac running OS X ehh? Did you install the latest 0.71.2.1 on it? using 11025 Hz for sound? forced frameskip 6? You need to set 11025Hz in the audio tab and setting frameskip 6 in the GUI you need to uncheck the automatic frameskipping checkbox and then launch the game once and use cmd-[ or cmd-] to adjust the frameskip to 6...using F11 to see the states of course.


look, i'm not stupid. i know how to manipulate settings.

71.2.1. was acquired from MacMAME.org.

the powerbook belongs to my dad.


what i forgot was that MacMAME builds an NVRAM directory, since Barry's WolfMAME has been spoiling me.

anyway, i'm checking your new one and it's playing back fine so far.
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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:00 pm

more funny stuff... if you watch my mhavoc.inp (and there have been problems doing so, looks like a .63 bug) you'll notice i was exiting the reactor by going BACK DOWN and jumping over the gun on level 13.

i didn't realize you could just use the lower One Way.
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Postby LN2 » Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:46 pm

Q.T.Quazar wrote:i didn't realize you could just use the lower One Way.

How could you overlook that? It's in plain view. you take the top one-way to get that key and go back around.... then also as you hit the reactor that one-way is right above you....clear it's the way out.

Man, that would be far more difficult trying to get out back past that gun...although no worse than level 14's guns which one you must go back past to get out. I have not gotten out successfully yet...always die at that gun so then it goes to level 15.

I told you in my first message to you that you had to delete the nvram folder. Macmame doesn't recreate it the way pc-mames do though so you don't have to worry about that. The nvram folder you start with was just part of the archive.

glad it seems to be playing back for you now. It will be cool to see many of my macmame inps confirmed. I hope you weren't going to only watch my Major Havoc runs. :P

if you have any more macmame questions feel free to ask. I know you know your way around but it was obvious you hadn't used macmame or hadn't used it a lot so aren't familiar with differences in behavior of the GUI versus pc mames.
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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sun Aug 03, 2003 12:50 am

if you have any more macmame questions feel free to ask. I know you know your way around but it was obvious you hadn't used macmame or hadn't used it a lot so aren't familiar with differences in behavior of the GUI versus pc mames.


no, it's pretty straightforward, and it behaves the same way except for the frameskip in game setting, which took me a while to figure out last night. as i said, i just forgot to delete the NVRAm folder and then it occured to me this morning that that was probably the problem; hadn't even seen your post yet. when it didn't play back i mostly messed aorund with sound and frameskip, but no luck. your newest mhavoc.inp is now confirmed. i will confir, your other .inps as access to my dad's PowerBook permits ;)

what surprises me is that the sound does work on MacMAME, and the game speed seems *more* accurate. it's a touch slower and the music doesn't rush as much, so the emulation for Macintosh seems better. but i am getting tired of posting about this probelm to mametesters.com and i still haven't received an official reply on my original post, nor have i heard back from Jess Askey or Aaron Giles.

btw, with the bars, i find it's best to lure them only slightly over to one side, so you can still stay fairly close to the middle to wipe out the enemy ships. then when the bars get close, i swing way out. if you're consistent in taking out the enemy fighters, you won't get hit by stray fire at the edge of the screen.

well, i should be able to clear 14 last night. made it three times last night and just progressively messed up worse on the jumps.

we should consider making a motion that MacMAME .inps only take two non-playbacks to get zeroed, since there is a dearth of MacMAME plauyers at MARP and playback can be expected to be more consistent across MAC platforms. what do you think?
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Postby LN2 » Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:09 am

Q.T.Quazar wrote:your newest mhavoc.inp is now confirmed. i will confir, your other .inps as access to my dad's PowerBook permits ;)

Yeah, I noticed that was confirmed...although I likely will beat that one soon I'm guessing...cuz you will likely beat that. No problem in when you get to watch an inp or 2 of mine. I try and put special notes in the descriptions when submitting and/or in the readme I include with the archive so you know what you can do. For most you can watch with throttle off and even add frameskip so you can watch them fast....a few you can't. for most I use audio at 22050 Hz. Major Havoc was the first I actually used 11025 Hz cuz the sound quality seemed to not really matter....plus that must help the performance a wee bit.

There is one of the sounds though...that is more like a muffled buzz than the correct sound it should be.
what surprises me is that the sound does work on MacMAME, and the game speed seems *more* accurate.

I told you the sound was fine. :P I have seen this for other games also(can't remember which ones offhand) that were reported that must be played with sound off to playback in pc-mame.

Given it's not a problem in macmame it must be something specific in the audio hardware emulation code in pc-mames that is causing those issues.
so the emulation for Macintosh seems better.

:D :D :D :D :D :D
btw, with the bars, i find it's best to lure them only slightly over to one side, so you can still stay fairly close to the middle to wipe out the enemy ships.

well, I played no bar level in that game. The bars are levels 8, 12, 16, etc. It's still the toughest of them. Yes, I'm aware how to manipulate those bars to have them generally stay out of your way. I just haven't played those enough to get it all set.

The problems come really if/when the bars separate in spacing instead of staying near each other. Then instead of dodging a pair of bars you are dodging 2 independent bars...plus they block a lot more of your shots at the fighters.
we should consider making a motion that MacMAME .inps only take two non-playbacks to get zeroed, since there is a dearth of MacMAME plauyers at MARP and playback can be expected to be more consistent across MAC platforms. what do you think?

actually, the current policy...given I was the only macmame confirmer here, was that only 1 other need to not be able to play it back(after trying to get assistance from the player if possible) before it's zeroed out.

I have gotten several scores zeroed out or the scores reduced just from my watching them. If the player has a legit e-mail given, I contact them and often have gotten them to check it also. They report back they see the same problem so then I have zero doubt.

Those seganinj and clone scores as well as others I have posted in the playbackability forum still haven't been adjusted by any editor. You have kept them too busy I guess to notice my postings. I'll remind them again in a few more days.
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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:41 pm

yes, it would be nice if it the Togyu and Bullfight scores were remvoed as well, since neither of those playback for us.
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Postby Chad » Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:56 pm

that's really sweet we have two mac confirmers now :) hey qt, why don't your wolf71u2's playback anymore, i think i was able to playback your earlier tgmame70 recordings (or what ever version you used before) but now your mhavoc wolf71 recordings just go to F2 screen.... (just like the mac ones do when i try to play them back, you wouldn't happen to be liking the mac emulation so much as too.. nahh :)
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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:17 pm

i think it's the .63 bug. Barry was able to play back the WolfMAME ones (the last set).

*sigh* i guess i'll switch back to .62. this competition is far from over anyway.
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Postby Chad » Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:06 pm

hmm i'm in the same "set" as barry (who is in a different set than you), or at least i thought i was so i should be able to playback what he does... well i put it in the list we'll take it off when i can playback your mame62 recs...
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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sun Aug 03, 2003 4:22 pm

hmm i'm in the same "set" as barry (who is in a different set than you), or at least i thought i was so i should be able to playback what he does...


yeah, this surprised me as well, but the proof is in the logs:

Wed Jul 30 07:16:03 2003 : mahlemiut (br) confirmed the mhavocrv score of 1515214 by Q.T.Quazar (qcn)

-this is a wolfmame .71u2 recording

Sat Aug 2 09:42:41 2003 : mahlemiut (br) confirmed the mhavocp score of 736830 by Q.T.Quazar (qcn)

-as is this one.

aside from the LED emulation box unchecked, these are the same settings (nosound, draw every frame (doesn't matter) WolfMAME32v.71u2), both confirmed by Barry. mhavoc and mhavoc2 have the same driver setup (alphaone and alphaona are NOT the same--easier to playback and no bugs at all) as mhavocrv and mhavocp.

and, of course, i checked these .inps before submitting because of the problems--both play back to advertised score.

so i don't know. i think that the .63 bug separating Pentium/Athlon vs. Celeron is not as consistent as we thought. i dont' know.
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Postby Chad » Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:06 pm

what is this led box unchecked? is it in the dips? or a mame command line option.
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Postby Abbe » Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:21 pm

If you use the cli version you turn off the leds with the -noleds switch. In the gui version there is a checkbox somwhere. I can't get the gui version to work in ME, so I can't tell you exactly where, though. :-P
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Postby Chad » Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:42 pm

arg another game which requires a special option to playback, oh well at least it works for me, NOT a 63 issue as suspected.
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