mhavoc and it's clones

Discussion about MARP's regulation play

Moderator: BBH

Should warping(entering warp codes) be allowed for Major Havoc and all it's clones?

Poll ended at Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:42 pm

Yes, allowing warping.
8
62%
No, ban warping and play the game from level 1.
5
38%
 
Total votes : 13

Postby LN2 » Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:01 pm

Some FYI for those that happen to play mhavocp.

I have found at least in the case of macmame...so likely same in pc-mames as well, that mame will crash/quit on you when you start level 12 IF you press the button to serve the breakout ball.

I did this 2 times...then the third time didn't press the button at start of level 12 and things kept going.
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RE

Postby QRS » Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:31 pm

Well, if the advantage is so huge scorewise etc my opinion is that warps should not be allowed. Why? Well, if you are going to beat one of the top scores you will have to warp. You will never even see the levels between in a recording.
Anyway, just my personal opinion though.

Why don´t you start a pool about it guys?

Cheers!
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Postby zlk » Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:53 pm

I say let people warp. If people want to get the highest score, they can warp. If they want to play from the start, they can do this also. The last sets of levels are the most interesting in my opinion. Let players get to the interesting parts of the game.
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Postby LN2 » Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:51 pm

zlk wrote:I say let people warp. If people want to get the highest score, they can warp. If they want to play from the start, they can do this also. The last sets of levels are the most interesting in my opinion. Let players get to the interesting parts of the game.

The levels get interesting pretty quickly.

I'm pretty sure looking at the scores here that if you were required to play from level 1 and not warp the high scores by the current players would only be in the 150-200k range.

I think with a bit more play I could get where I could play up to level 12 or 14.(level 13 is actually a lot easier than level 12 IMHO).

Even then my score would only be around 300-400k I think...instead of 1 million.

One big point of MARP is to see replay files of skilled play. If all you see is someone entering warp codes then quickly dying or playing just 1 high level, that's nothing compared to seeing someone starting from level 1 and playing all the way up to that particular level.

I know a few games I tried from level 1 I was only able to play to level 5.

I'm actually better playing levels 9-13 than those early levels cuz I have played them tons more than the early levels.

I would rather get to see someone play through each type of fighter thing at the start of each level and see various mazes completed versus just one.

If there were many warping to level 13 then playing up to level 17 or 18 then that would be different...but a couple are on level 14(including me ...about to submit new high scores) but that's it.

I'm sorry but seeing a replay of only level 13 and part of level 14 is nothing compared to watching an inp of someone playing levels 1-10 for example.

The score difference by warping is so severe that no one will play it this way as long as warping is allowed. Even if they did, their score would be a low score which very few would likely notice.

TG allows warping for this, but their high scores are like 1.4-1.8 million so you get to see several of the higher levels played...not just 1 or 1.5.

I like my alphaona inp a lot more cuz I play levels 9-11 and get almost through level 12 also....so you get to see some high levels completed you don't even see if that third or fourth warp code worked for this clone....so we get to see levels played you normally wouldn't.

Perhaps we have had enough discussion on this now where I can start a poll(?).
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Postby Chad » Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:57 pm

yeah i'd have to agree, you gotta earn getting to play levels 10+, my 3 scents.
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Postby LN2 » Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:44 pm

Ok, I've added a poll for it now. :D

7 days... so ends on August 8 in USA, 9th for Europe and points east. :P
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Postby Weehawk » Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:21 pm

Q.T.Quazar wrote:but hey, feel free to prove me wrong. lots of points up for grabs


Looks like he's grabbing them.

And now if his poll is successful they'll be taken away?

A man of strong convictions, certainly.

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Postby zlk » Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:48 pm

I am for warping. If it is good enough for TWINGALAXIES, then how on Earth could it not be good enough for me? :D
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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sat Aug 02, 2003 12:45 am

Looks like he's grabbing them.

And now if his poll is successful they'll be taken away?

A man of strong convictions, certainly.


heh :) well, i still have the trickier clones for the time being. and i have an old PowerMac here, so i can probably watch those .inps. (yay!)

hopefully we can war on this game a bit before i have to finish packing for China.

congrats, Rick, btw, for beating Angry's 1st on mhavoc. THAT's been there a 'little' while.
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Postby LN2 » Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:08 am

Q.T.Quazar wrote:heh :) well, i still have the trickier clones for the time being. and i have an old PowerMac here, so i can probably watch those .inps. (yay!)

I have gotten very close to both of the alphaone and alphaona scores..but didn't keep the inp.

Man, level 12 is a bitch! I actually got through 9, 10 and 11 only losing 1 life...so had 5 men at start of level 12 and lost 4 on the fighter part. Those bar things get me everytime. I think playing it a few more times I can get a semi-pattern of initial movement to at least get those bars moving the right way so they stay more out of your way versus blocking all your shots at the enemy fighters. Level 13 is actually a lot easier than level 12.

I don't like the fact no shield to use in the maze on these alpha clones. The game is already hard enough with a shield. Without the shield getting the levitation boots on level 11 isn't so easy.

I set a few scores before making this a poll to show I wasn't asking for this change to benefit myself. I knew I could get the high scores with warping...but feel it's more of a test playing from level 1. Yes, the scores will end up a lot lower...even if you reach those high levels.

If the result of this is my scores are deleted with the rest...fine. I will play them starting from level 1 where I'll have to get good at the early levels. From the initial votes though that doesn't seem likely given 67% no is required...but it's still early.
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Postby LN2 » Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:13 am

Q.T.Quazar wrote:heh :) well, i still have the trickier clones for the time being. and i have an old PowerMac here, so i can probably watch those .inps. (yay!)

really? wow!

If so...are you a confirmer here? I'm guessing you are. I have many inps it would be nice if they were confirmed. If it's an old and slower powermac you likely will be watching some in slow motion...that require a fixed frameskip...but you can watch them. Although the latest macmame that I am using for my recent submissions here is 0.71.2.1 which only runs in OS X. I'm guessing your powermac is likely an older one that can run OS 9 as the latest OS. You could still watch and confirm many scores I have here using 0.60 and 0.66 though. :D

I know a few here doubt many of my scores...just because no one has confirmed them. I'm surprised no one else here has a mac or even just access to a mac they could confirm. The few other major macmame players that used to play here seem to have disappeared.
hopefully we can war on this game a bit before i have to finish packing for China.

Yeah, that would be cool....although we have already done some battle on bking and bking2. :P I might try more runs of that this weekend...since playing more Major Havoc right now without knowing the outcome of this poll makes little sense.
congrats, Rick, btw, for beating Angry's 1st on mhavoc. THAT's been there a 'little' while.

Thx...and yeah, I noticed... 5 year old score? man... Was Major Havoc even totally emulated ok on that old version of mame?
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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:25 am

Thx...and yeah, I noticed... 5 year old score? man... Was Major Havoc even totally emulated ok on that old version of mame?


sadly, it was probably emulated better. see mametesters.com

really? wow!

If so...are you a confirmer here?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

man, sometimes i don't even know why i bother...
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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:34 am

incidentally. this game is in its infancy, score-wise, at MARP. if we get good enough, the whole you-haven't-played-this-level debate in this thread will become irrelevant, because as zlk noted, the levels wrap, and they wrap earlier than i originally thought (Jess Askey lists the last four levels at his site as 13-16.

oh, and Rick :)


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Postby Q.T.Quazar » Sat Aug 02, 2003 5:56 am

Your mhavoc.inp does not playback, Rick. checked with listed version, frameskip, and audio settings on a PowerBook running OSX-point-something. It has exactly the same problem that my .inps did when i was recording with sound; almost immediately flips up the dip settings screen or whatever the hell the system check is called.

if you record again without sound i will check your new .inp.

sorry,
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Postby LN2 » Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:53 am

Q.T.Quazar wrote:Your mhavoc.inp does not playback, Rick. checked with listed version, frameskip, and audio settings on a PowerBook running OSX-point-something.

oh, so you have a mac running OS X ehh? Did you install the latest 0.71.2.1 on it? using 11025 Hz for sound? forced frameskip 6? You need to set 11025Hz in the audio tab and setting frameskip 6 in the GUI you need to uncheck the automatic frameskipping checkbox and then launch the game once and use cmd-[ or cmd-] to adjust the frameskip to 6...using F11 to see the states of course.

I also played it at 640x480 which might also matter for these vector games in macmame...cuz they automatically play at whatever your monitor resolution is using fullscreen mode....so I used a low resolution to get better performance.
It has exactly the same problem that my .inps did when i was recording with sound; almost immediately flips up the dip settings screen or whatever the hell the system check is called.

This is actually what I saw when I tried it with pc-mame71u2. I figured it was just another game where it's not cross-platform compatible.
if you record again without sound i will check your new .inp.

I guess I could make a "dummy" inp without any sound to see if you can play that back correctly. Given the inps with sound playback fine for me though I wonder why they aren't for others...cuz macmame doesn't have these kinds of issues like pc-mames does as I have seen reported for several games.
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