Golden Era Game of the Week 8/12/06: Kangaroo

Golden Era Game of the Week
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Postby dbh » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:25 pm

destructor wrote:http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/9/e/3/tgk_kangaroo.zip
I think in this replay was used this method. Stage 4 only is in description. I can't playback correctly this input using mame from 29 to 35 under windows and DOS.

Steve's recording plays back for me on my Windows 98 machine (DOS version of MAME). He gorilla leeches on the second board of each level. He also uses strange bonus settings: free men were awarded at 20K, 40K, 80K, 120K, 160K, 200K.
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Postby Weehawk » Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:31 pm

dbh wrote:Ah, the memories of that TG thread...

Hehe..yeah. I thought one of the members was a real dick from that. I've learned since then he's a good guy. I guess some people that live near Funspot or have their own arcades in their basement don't realize that for most of us these games just don't exist outside of MAME...haven't for 20 years.

dbh wrote:I've played the Kangaroo at Funspot and it definitely does NOT have the same gorilla-leeching tricks.

Have you tried the "kangaroa" and "kangarob" ROMsets? Would be nice if we could hammer down the differences in the ROMS.

dbh wrote:He also uses strange bonus settings: free men were awarded at 20K, 40K, 80K, 120K, 160K, 200K.

And says those were TG settings at the time. I guess it's possible.

And I guess we'll never know what really happened at that Taco Nacho in Gainesville, Florida in 1983.

Somebody ought to challenge it. :twisted:
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Postby Weehawk » Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:37 pm

Sunday's bonus points to Sampras@AIVA

Looks like Don Hayes has reached the farthest level so far at Level 4 Round2.
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Postby sampras » Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:32 am

Great DES!!!

Bounty killer 8O
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Postby DaviL » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:03 am

sampras wrote:Great DES!!!

Bounty killer 8O



Congratulation DES.
Not a great inp but a great score!
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Postby Marco Marocco » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:38 am

Grats :D
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Postby The TJT » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:36 pm

Out of curiosity, what was the 3 man score in Des's inp?
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Postby sampras » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:44 pm

The TJT wrote:Out of curiosity, what was the 3 man score in Des's inp?


200k
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Postby zlk » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:35 pm

Great playing Des! :D
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Postby NotMan » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:39 pm

Congrats DES! :D

DES, I really hate to break your bubble.

JTC has picked the wrong version of Kangaroo for TG setting. The wr is held on Atari version not the japanese version in US. Believe me that I have not seen a japanese version with demo with Japanese similes not English version of saying MOM in the beginning.

I'm not quite sure if there was any difference between those two versions. Japanese version is first one, not sure if the Atari version is bug fixed version???

I expect JTC to pay up the bounty for the errors he *may* made a mistake on TG setting with wrong version of Kangaroo.

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Postby Weehawk » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:35 pm

I guess if anybody could do it, we knew des could.

Have you tested the "kangaroa" and "kangarob" ROMsets behavior regarding the gorillas, des? Could the same be done on them?

The mystery of differing ROMS was, in fact, part of the interest here.

NotMan wrote:The wr is held on Atari version not the japanese version in US.

How do you know this? Can you cite a reference?

NotMan wrote:I expect JTC to pay up the bounty for the errors he *may* made a mistake on TG setting with wrong version of Kangaroo.

To be frank, living up to your expectations is pretty low on my list of priorities, but it should go without saying that I will honor the bounty as offered. To do otherwise would sort of defeat the purpose of the whole thing now, wouldn't it?

This may in fact, be the answer to "the mystery of Taco Nacho", and explain how a thereafter unheard-of gamer was able to set a record that some knowledgeable people think is impossible.

Or, the score from 1983 may be bogus and des' ability to do it with this ROMset in MAME is a coincidence. More information is needed.

Let's just say we've had a breakthrough.
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Postby destructor » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:45 pm

Weehawk wrote:Have you tested the "kangaroa" and "kangarob" ROMsets behavior regarding the gorillas, des? Could the same be done on them?

I didn't test them. I will check these clones in 2 next days.

But when I read Steve Krogman descrpition:
"Stage 4. TG settings used. The T.G. World Record is: "921,800 by David Kirk.""
I think David Kirk used the same method -> leeching on gorilla on stage 2. Why I think this? Because I think that Steve Krogman copy method from David Kirk. I'm not sure in 100% otherwise. Then -> David Kirk used the same version as we in GEGOTW.

And thanks for congrats but this was simple :P
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Postby Weehawk » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:49 pm

destructor wrote:But when I read Steve Krogman descrpition:
"Stage 4. TG settings used. The T.G. World Record is: "921,800 by David Kirk.""
I think David Kirk used the same method -> leeching on gorilla on stage 2. Why I think this? Because I think that Steve Krogman copy method from David Kirk.

Krogman cited the TG record in lots of his MARP uploads.

I doubt he had any information on Kirk's method of play. In one of the threads linked in the original post he indicated that he thought the score was bogus, in fact.
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Postby dbh » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:47 pm

Have you tried the "kangaroa" and "kangarob" ROMsets? Would be nice if we could hammer down the differences in the ROMS.

I haven't tried them recently, but from what I remember when this came up on the TG forums I played all three and didn't notice any difference in the gorilla leeching (ie, it was possible to do it in all three). One of the romsets has the word "MOM" as noted by someone else. None of the three romsets behaves like the one at Funspot.

It would be interesting to take a rom dump of the one at Funspot and compare it to the currently available romsets. Another possibility would be to burn a set of roms using the ones from MAME and then see what happens when they're put onto an actual PCB.

This may in fact, be the answer to "the mystery of Taco Nacho", and explain how a thereafter unheard-of gamer was able to set a record that some knowledgeable people think is impossible.

Or, the score from 1983 may be bogus and des' ability to do it with this ROMset in MAME is a coincidence. More information is needed.

Either scenario is still plausible, although I would lean towards the old score being done the same way des did it. With no free men after 390K and the scoring rate that des showed, a 900K+ score is about what you would expect just from leeching with no mistakes. Des was getting about 50-60K per man so maybe on the old score the guy messed up and lost a man or didn't do the leeching on the first screen.

For me to be sure, I'd like to actually see an arcade machine display that behavior first since I have yet to hear or see it in several (maybe 5 or 6) instances. Granted, that's a small sample size but it's still 100% of what I've heard of. This situation is similar to the discussion about Wonderboy romsets where everyone said Funspot has a really weird set that wasn't on MAME but it just showed up within the past few months.

And, congrats des! How much vodka will the bounty buy you? :D
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Postby Weehawk » Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:02 pm

dbh wrote:I would lean towards the old score being done the same way des did it. With no free men after 390K and the scoring rate that des showed, a 900K+ score is about what you would expect just from leeching with no mistakes.

Agreed. This would tend to corroborate that the score was achieved, if through less-than-heroic methods.

dbh wrote:I'd like to actually see an arcade machine display that behavior first since I have yet to hear or see it in several (maybe 5 or 6) instances.

First guess would be that we're looking at a situation where a disproportionate number of the still-existing machines are a later ROM version in which the problem was fixed. Like with the Joust pterodactyl-hunting thing, but less well-known.

So less, in fact that the later ROM version is not even documented in MAME, which beggars belief, but if your observations, which agree with Greg Erway's, are correct, there would seem to be no other explanation than a different ROM version from the ones in MAME.
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