TMNT leeching

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TMNT leeching

Postby riksweeney » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:22 pm

(Not wanting to sound like I'm whining, but...)

Each time you hit a boomerang you get a point in the game, and since there's no time limit you can do this until you beat the highscore and then simply die. This replay is a prime example

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/a/e/f/kei_tmnt_1372_wolf106.zip

Perhaps a rule should be added so that you can leech, but you must finish the game (not the level, the level 2 boss is far too easy).
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Postby Chad » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:02 pm

I'm glad someone else said this before me. Yeah too true, no time limit, although it does appear to be difficult the difficulty doesn't change and can be done forever? I'd have to say this goes directly against the rule 2(h) and should not be allowed at all even when finishing the game. But you have to shoot some boomerangs, so it's hard to say how many should be disallowable limit.

http://marp.retrogames.com/r/tmnt

he doesn't leech in the clone
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Postby mahlemiut » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:11 pm

Hmmm... I thought there was a time limit, which was reset whenever you moved the screen forward, much like in Aliens.
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Postby riksweeney » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:25 pm

mahlemiut wrote:Hmmm... I thought there was a time limit, which was reset whenever you moved the screen forward, much like in Aliens.

Looks like the timeout bomb only falls on you if there are no enemies on the screen. It will keep displaying the hurry message but nothing will happen unless there's nothing to kill...
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Postby landshark9 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:08 pm

Maybe the score should be a Cadash style score; base it on the frame number of something.

Just random numbers, but:

If you finish the game, the score is the frame number. Lowest number wins. If you don't finish, it is the score = 50,000 - points.

This would prevent leeching and encourage speedy completion.
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Postby Chad » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:01 pm

makes sense, it tjt still the reg coordinator? framecount finishing bonus would work in my book.
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Postby Zhorik » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:29 pm

Zhorik wrote:Here are the final results of the MARP 2006 Election:

Regulation Coordinator: Phil Lamat
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Postby The TJT » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:31 pm

Yeah. Seymour hasn't updated my "status" above avatar...and I haven't asked. Guess he doesn't read forums that often.

edit: I asked Seymour to change it.
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Postby mahlemiut » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:09 pm

Change done.
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Postby pat33999 » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:13 pm

In theory, a time bonus sounds good, but there's one major problem with that.

The difficulty seems to randomly change as you progress through the game, and with it, the number of enemies also changes. You can play through the entire game multiple times, and never get the same score twice, even if you never touch a boomerang. Enacting a time bonus will mean that whoever is lucky enough to encounter the fewest enemies will most likely score the highest.

If there is a way to manipulate the game to change this during gameplay, I'd like to know about it.

Also, a time bonus negates the possibility of playing on higher difficulties (for more points). I was considering going back and finishing the Japanese version (no boomerang points in that one, if I remember correctly) on the hardest difficulty, but with a time bonus the normal difficulty would score higher.
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Postby Phil Lamat » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:12 am

Zhorik wrote:
Zhorik wrote:Here are the final results of the MARP 2006 Election:

Regulation Coordinator: Phil Lamat


Need to watch inputs and test the game, I don't know it and never played it.
Let me 2 or 3 days (lot of work actually, but holidays soon)
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Postby Phil Lamat » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:59 am

Damned untimed games ...
I've looked some inputs, this boomerang leeching isn't very new :
http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/c/2/1/sa ... n37b13.zip
(but this one die at the end of scene 2 and is better ranked than Mgm's finished game !)

I understand Pat's comments.
Maybe we can just mention in rules box that the technic is banned (maybe limiting scene2 score to 200 ?).
And/or add to score a bonus like 1000x(scenes completed).
As there is 5 scenes in the game, that means we have to glue a 5 in front of all finished games.

Waiting for comments, as I'm not yet very familiar with the game.
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Postby pat33999 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:00 am

Your suggestions sound good, Phil. I see no problem with a level bonus. A time bonus wouldn't work due to randomness, but a level bonus is fair to all players.
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Postby GHEMANT » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:04 am

Pat, in your last score you use hardest difficult.

In this game hardest difficult = more enemies ?

if yes, this difference is > or < of 150 points?
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Postby Chad » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:27 am

pat33999 wrote:In theory, a time bonus sounds good, but there's one major problem with that.

The difficulty seems to randomly change as you progress through the game, and with it, the number of enemies also changes. You can play through the entire game multiple times, and never get the same score twice, even if you never touch a boomerang. Enacting a time bonus will mean that whoever is lucky enough to encounter the fewest enemies will most likely score the highest.

If there is a way to manipulate the game to change this during gameplay, I'd like to know about it.

Also, a time bonus negates the possibility of playing on higher difficulties (for more points). I was considering going back and finishing the Japanese version (no boomerang points in that one, if I remember correctly) on the hardest difficulty, but with a time bonus the normal difficulty would score higher.


Actually in theory your two points against a time bonus just proved that a time bonus would be the same (or better because it avoids the leeching problem) as the normal scoring method of opponents trounced. Point 1: time bonus is bad because of luck. If the difficulty randomly changes and the number of enemies change, that would mean if you were playing by score you'd also only be lucky to get more score than someone playing with the same skill. Point 2: time bonus forces people to use easier difficulties. We can enforce the highest difficulty to be played in the special rules. Making the luck of getting lower diffuclty sections (and less enemies) less likely. Anyways most games add in at least a little randomness to allowing more or less points to be scored, the object of the highest score is to find out how to do it in the least amount of time or with the most score.

I think restricting leeching to 200 enemies per section is not good. This would enforce players and confirmers a like to count exactly 200 enemies before they can go on to the next section. A finishing bonus with more points awarded with a better time (frame count) seems a dominantly good alternative to random leeching if scoring by points.

Pat's recent highest difficutly record looks pretty clean, leeched ~100 in the sewer. Since p21 leeched about ~60 in the same spot. I think this puts the harderst difficulty bonus verses normal difficulty in about 110 more enemies in hardest diffuclty. WIth 150 points separating the two recordings.
Last edited by Chad on Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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