Hardest game?

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Hardest game?

Postby riksweeney » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:55 pm

Apart from Battle Toads (which isn't so much as hard as just stupid), I was wondering what everyone thinks is the hardest game in MAME?

I've got a couple, Magician Lord being one of them.
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Postby BBH » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:57 pm

Smash TV :|
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Postby Chad » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:05 pm

personally,
http://marp.retrogames.com/r/losttmbh (hard) not like the easy version is cake either
and http://marp.retrogames.com/r/powerbal ditto
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Postby zlk » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:51 pm

I agree with BBH: Smash TV. The game awards items so randomly that the later stages can be impossible. Sometimes the game awards 7 extra lives, the next game zero. Sometimes you get good weapons to survive a level, the next game you get no weapons and lose all your men on the same level.

One of the programmers, Mark Turmell, claims to have finished the game on one credit. I would like to see that.... 8)
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Postby The TJT » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:36 am

Smash TV is not so hard from the very beginning. Difficult bosses are just an easy getaway to put some challenge to a game that is not so hard by itself. Some games are designed to be played with multiple credits, you can continue games by inserting more coins.

My vote would go for:

1. Some Phoenix clones with a timer. Eagles are so agressive. Timer makes the game nearly impossible at some early waves. I doubt anyone could play those clones past 15 minutes or destroy early flagships without losing a ship.

2. Return of the Jedi: This one is playable when you do get hold of the tactics. However when a beginner plays this title with infinite men cheat on, it's possible to lose something like 10 men at same spot in the trench...making the game feel impossible for someone who's not quite a jedi, yet.

3. Zaxxon/Super Zaxxon: I know they are very playable once you have memorized and perfected patterns...But for a casual Zaxxon player the whole game lasts something like 1 minute untill game over.

4. Tac Scan gets really tough on later levels, it really tests ones reflexes. I'm not sure if the MAME emulation is correct though.

Played couple days ago this game called Catacomb, it seems to ramp up difficulty a lot after one minute of play. A real coin-eater, something that would be too hard a game for arcades. The jury is still out on that one.
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Postby mahlemiut » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:20 am

Anything BBH can't finish must be hard. :)
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Postby BBH » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:46 pm

The TJT wrote:Smash TV is not so hard from the very beginning. Difficult bosses are just an easy getaway to put some challenge to a game that is not so hard by itself. Some games are designed to be played with multiple credits, you can continue games by inserting more coins.


I'll agree that Smash TV is not brutal starting from the beginning, but after Mutoid Man the game becomes quite difficult. You think it's only the bosses that are tough? The orbs on various boards of the second stage are a pain in the ass if you don't have the little gray orbiting thing to give you extra firepower. There are many. many difficult non-boss boards after that, in fact, the room before the last boss lasts a hellishly long time.

Was it designed to be played on multiple credits? That's debatable. Since Mark Turmell supposedly claims that it's possible to finish on one credit, and one of the "achievements" in the XBox Live Arcade version is to finish it on one credit... they must obviously think it's doable. But I have yet to see any proof of this.

Impossible games are those that FORCE you to put more money in to keep playing, such as various US versions of Konami games (Crime Fighters, Metamorphic Force, etc), and revision 1.6 of Gauntlet Legends (at least I think it was 1.6 that completely ruined the game).

I also find Dodonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou too difficult to be any fun, but that game's not yet emulated.

edit: oh god how did I forget Sinistar?
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Postby LN2 » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:39 am

sinistar would be my toughest pick.

followed closely by super zaxxon.
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Postby MJS » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:40 pm

I know it's not the same for all people (because a japanese guy reached the 5th loop) but I find Zing Zing Zip pretty much nightmare.

Up there with this one, I would put Battlantis and probably Valtric, too.
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Postby Novice » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:04 pm

MJS wrote:I know it's not the same for all people (because a japanese guy reached the 5th loop) but I find Zing Zing Zip pretty much nightmare.

Up there with this one, I would put Battlantis and probably Valtric, too.

Zing Zing Zip??
Third loop is current record I think.
Ryukyu round 20.
Block out round 50 is current gamest record.
If you finish the game with 1 credit, then WR holder no doubt.
I think the most difficult game ever is "star blade(1991 namco)"without autofire.
I have finished this game for 2000 times or more with autofire.
but only once without autofire.
4years practice was needed.
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Postby destructor » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:09 pm

ZingZingZip is very hard, it's true. I don't know how is possible to finish one loop :D
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Postby GHEMANT » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:08 pm

Novice wrote:Zing Zing Zip??
Third loop is current record I think.


current record is loop 4-3... player is famous Kamiyu Binta (excellent player in old shooting game like R-type style)
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Postby zlk » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:12 pm

I don't see why people are mentioning zaxxon and super zaxxon. They aren't easy games, but the strategies to do well are understood and people can play the game for a very long time on one credit.

Zing Zing Zip is a hard game. There is a CKDF video of someone getting to the third loop. You really have to know what you are doing to get anywhere in the game and there are many tricks to the game. If you die in the wrong place, your game ends quickly.

Games with timers that weren't in the original version do not count for me. :D

Sinistar is incredibly difficult. This is a great choice.

I still think Smashtv is the hardest game in mame. Once you get past mutoid man, your game can end on any level. If you do not get the right items, you will lose all your men and your game is over. I wonder if there is any way to control the item distribution. If there were, then finishing the game on one credit would seem much more possible. Does anyone know how to contact Mark Turmell?
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Postby zlk » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:28 pm

BBH wrote:Impossible games are those that FORCE you to put more money in to keep playing, such as various US versions of Konami games (Crime Fighters, Metamorphic Force, etc), and revision 1.6 of Gauntlet Legends (at least I think it was 1.6 that completely ruined the game).


Speaking of hard rom versions, the hong kong version of donpachi is quite difficult.

All the boss attacks are ramped up. Even the last attack of the stage 1 boss is annoying.

All the enemies fire faster at you. The larger enemies bullets fire about 1.5x faster than in the other versions. There are enemies on stage 5 that fire so fast their bullets are hard to see.

The 1-4 hiding spot near the 1up area does not work.

The 1-4 and 1-5 hiding spots for the bosses early attacks do not work.

In fact, almost every safe spot that works in the US, JP, and KOR versions has been purposefully removed from the HK version.

This makes me think that:

1) This is some hack created by someone who felt the original game was too easy.

or

2) The emulation is slightly off for some reason.

or

3) Cave wants to frustrate the players of Hong Kong.
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Postby mahlemiut » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:29 pm

zlk wrote:3) Cave wants to frustrate the players of Hong Kong.


My guess. If Konami does it for US players... :)
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