Poll: What do you consider cheating?

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When practicing for a high score on marp what do you consider cheating, if anything?

Anything goes. As long as you aren't making a recording to be send in anything you do to get better is fair.
13
68%
Save states are ok but not real cheats like infinit lives or time.
2
11%
No cheating allowed. Every game should be played as it is in the arcades.
4
21%
 
Total votes: 19

Locut0s
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Poll: What do you consider cheating?

Post by Locut0s » Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:41 pm

Simple question. When practicing for a high score on marp what do you consider cheating, if anything? I'm not talking about the recording you send in obviously, I'm talking about ways to improve your play at a game. A purist would probably say that anything except normal arcade play is cheating. Personally I use save states when practicing but don't use real cheats, though I don't have anything against using them to practice. So I'll vote for anything goes.

Of course to a real purist even using mame at all is cheating as you have infint money to play with, but obviously I'm leaving this group out :wink:

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Re: Poll: What do you consider cheating?

Post by Weehawk » Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:22 pm

Locut0s wrote:Simple question. When practicing for a high score on marp what do you consider cheating, if anything? I'm not talking about the recording you send in obviously, I'm talking about ways to improve your play at a game. A purist would probably say that anything except normal arcade play is cheating. Personally I use save states when practicing but don't use real cheats, though I don't have anything against using them to practice. So I'll vote for anything goes.

Of course to a real purist even using mame at all is cheating as you have infint money to play with, but obviously I'm leaving this group out :wink:
There are no rules regarding what one can do to practice.

Do whatever you feel benefits you most.
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dbh
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Post by dbh » Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:33 pm

The question about save states being cheating was actually raised at the Twin Galaxies panel discussion at California Extreme 2004. My answer was that I do not consider it cheating. It is simply a quicker way to learn how to play a game. It is definitely an advantage over playing a game over and over in an arcade, although games which have a rack advance dip switch (eg, Pac Man) can be learned in a similar manner as saving state.

For the overall question, I'd say anything goes when practicing.

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Post by LN2 » Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:48 am

yeah...this question is misleading...cuz in practicing you can do whatever you want.

I often set the game to have more men or award more extra men etc. at least so I get more practice on the higher/later levels of the game..or use a save state so I don't have to bother replaying the early/boring levels...and just concentrate on the later levels.

However, when submitting a score for a scoreboard or contest, I feel the game should be restricted similar to what you could do in the arcades.

...following other rules of the scoreboard and contest of course...so set the dip switches etc. as the rules state...if any tricks not allowed then don't do them etc.

Cheating is simply breaking the rules. In practice you make your own rules which for some likely is no rules so you can do whatever you want.

I voted for the 3rd option cuz I initially read it as cheating as in participating in an event or contest or scoreboard.

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Post by mahlemiut » Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:22 am

LN2 wrote:I voted for the 3rd option cuz I initially read it as cheating as in participating in an event or contest or scoreboard.
How? I thought it was pretty clear.
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The TJT
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Post by The TJT » Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:31 am

dbh wrote:panel discussion at California Extreme 2004
So...what did you think about Marble Man?
Was there one with trakballs too?
Anybody finally stole the roms?...

http://www.safestuff.com/marbleman.htm

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tar
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Post by tar » Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:57 am

no cheating N0.3

of course there was
rule breaking in the arcade

examples

taking keys to games from the arcade opperators to access game doors.[ front or back ]

:arrow:
we had a wizard of wor machine where a semi-swift punch to the coin mechanism
rewarded the player with a credit.


infinite lives?

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Post by lippsman » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:44 pm

Is there a list of games that work with the save state feature?

Thanks

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Post by mike_myers » Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:30 pm

There are no rules when you practice.

In sport games the best way to practice is to reach directly the final setting the result to 1-0 and use the 'Time up' cheat. When you are in the last round, use 'Infinite time' and try to find a fast way to score.

In other games (platforms, shooters) the best option is the 'infinite lives' cheat and some weapon cheats ('Get shotgun now! PL1' or similar)

Invulnerability cheat makes the game too easy, but it's useful if you are searching new cheats and practicing. ;)
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Post by destructor » Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:41 pm

lippsman wrote:Is there a list of games that work with the save state feature?

Thanks
Almost all :wink:

Cheats at all :wink: Save states at all :wink: For training only :wink:

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Post by lippsman » Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:10 pm

O.K. I just tried to do a save state. As per instructions on the mame.net site. I pushed shift+f7+another key to save state. But when I pushed the buttons it asked me to load state.

Help........

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destructor
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Post by destructor » Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:03 pm

To save game do:
1. Press LeftShift+F7
2. When on screen is message: 'Select position to save to' press key (on keyboard :wink: ) where you want save game

To load game do:
1. Press F7 only
2. When on screen is message: 'Select position to load from' press key where you previously saved game.

PS. You can only use keys with letters and numbers on keyboard to save state. Esc = cancel load and save.

Example.
Run game and play. Press LeftShift+F7, next press A (save game under key A). Still play. After some time press F7, next press A (load game from key A).

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Post by LN2 » Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:16 pm

mahlemiut wrote:How? I thought it was pretty clear.
Well, when I read the question without looking at the choices I am thinking...who cares..it's just practice..do whatever you want.


...but then when I saw the choices it seemed related to actual playing for submission.

I don't know of anyone that wouldn't alter the game settings or use cheats to train/practice for games they really want to get good at.


...thus my confusion over what the purpose of the question was.

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Post by Locut0s » Sun Sep 26, 2004 4:30 pm

Interesting replies.

LN2: I can see why it would seem obvious to you that you can do anything when practising a game. However not everyone feels that way. There are some, though I agree not many, who feel that using any advantage an emulator gives you over playing the game in the aracade is not right. I don't feel this way but I was intersted to know if anyone here felt that way.

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Post by LN2 » Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:22 pm

Locut0s wrote:There are some, though I agree not many, who feel that using any advantage an emulator gives you over playing the game in the aracade is not right.
Like the advantage that playing the games in an emulator costs "nothing"?!? versus spending $100s or more to play?

Now in practice I generally just give myself more men versus normal if possible. I will play at the same difficulty setting though....where I normally play at TG difficulty setting.

vs. in the arcade is an interesting angle though...cuz how many arcades would you go into where the game dip switch setup was different versus factory or different versus other arcades you would play at? I regularly saw this...especially once in the mid 80s where arcade managers started making difficulty and/or extra men settings harder to shorten the average game time.

At least with an emulator WE have control over the settings....versus being stuck with whatever the arcade had it set at. This is an issue today which keeps many from really being able to do for records on the actual arcade games. In the USA you almost need to attend Funspot or a special TG or other organized event to have the games and have personnel that will allow you to set it up as you want to go for a record score etc. Perhaps this varies in other countries but in the USA those who have submitted new arcade record scores the past couple of years have all done it at Funspot or actually own that arcade game themselves. I don't recall even one new record from someone as a regular customer/gamer just going into the arcade with their camcorder and setting a score....other than at Funspot of course. :P

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