2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Discussion about MARP's Time Trial Competition
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby giro-X » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:46 pm

Damn it, I've tried for 2 hours to apply the trick for extra lives at stage 3, no way I could get them! Also, i decided to abandon this road, makes me waste a lot of time in the game solution... Stage 3 is becoming my real enemy to this game, since stage 4 is quite... "easier". And in the meanwhile, I've practised so much the first 2 stages to have reached these times : stage 1, 44 seconds, stage 2, 2min34seconds.
If only I could get and beat the 3rd boss... :(
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby gameboy9 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:03 pm

Oh I'm stuck just trying to get by the second stage this round... usually I lose a life on Scorn, and if that doesn't happen, I lose a life during the horse section of 2-1. Yeah, doesn't matter, I stink at this game. :(
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby 1up » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:49 am

only got time for a few games tonight. hopefully beat boss #2. Usually get to him without dying and a full healthbar. but get my ass kicked as I keep messing up blocking. #-o

hopefully I will make it to level 3 tonight
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby el_fumador » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:20 am

gameboy9 wrote:I found this on the history.dat file (I think that's the file...) - it's very complex to accomplish, but it may be to your advantage:

- TIPS AND TRICKS -

Earning Extra Lifes : In stage 2, lose 1 life against boss. Beat him. When you come to the 3rd stage, don't break the barricades, just wait. First kill the Fat-Man and the Soldier.
WARNING : If you launch a desperation attack (attack+jump), all the effort will be lost.
Then wait until the Bird Man comes run against you. Hit him with a strong strike (push front+punch). Don't hit him while is recovering. Wait until he runs to you again and make the same. you can kill him after 3 strikes (unless with Lancelot).
If you're done correctly, hit the barricade of the above, don't pick the food, try to turn apart it, and you'll get a surprise... a cheess pieces with 2 lifes (2UP) waiting for you.
If you kill the second Bird-Man in the same way, the second item in the barricade will give you 1 more level (green sceptre).
If you remember, a 3rd Bird-Man gets into the castle when you break the bridge's barricade. Do the same trick with him inside, break the down barricade, break the item and you'll get one more life (1UP).


I disagree with this tricks. In my opinion, it shouldn't be allowed in this game.
And for the remaining games, I think the same.
These tricks will penalize skilled players in this game and the following games (if it's applied). In a Time Trial competition you must assume risks to get a good score. If you don´t risk you don't have chances to qualify in a good position. Otherwise, if you can obtain extra lives and have got 4 or 5 lives , what merit exists to complete the 4 stages?
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby gameboy9 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:42 am

el_fumador wrote:I disagree with this tricks. In my opinion, it shouldn't be allowed in this game.
And for the remaining games, I think the same.
These tricks will penalize skilled players in this game and the following games (if it's applied). In a Time Trial competition you must assume risks to get a good score. If you don´t risk you don't have chances to qualify in a good position. Otherwise, if you can obtain extra lives and have got 4 or 5 lives , what merit exists to complete the 4 stages?


While I certainly do not disagree with you... with how complex this trick is, you surely won't get first place even if you are able to accomplish it, as I would think that you'll lose substantial time doing the trick. Looking at the history.dat, I'm sure that the rest of the games don't have any of these tricks whatsoever, so I'm going to allow it this time, seeing that this is the first game.

EDIT: The other matter is, now that I'm thinking about it, it was deliberately programmed into the game... I remember a game in the Knockout tournament a while back where a bug in a racing game where you bump into the car and you go speeds normally impossible in the game... those cases where players could utilize unintended bugs I would NOT allow here.
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby el_fumador » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:24 pm

gameboy9 wrote:
el_fumador wrote:I disagree with this tricks. In my opinion, it shouldn't be allowed in this game.
And for the remaining games, I think the same.
These tricks will penalize skilled players in this game and the following games (if it's applied). In a Time Trial competition you must assume risks to get a good score. If you don´t risk you don't have chances to qualify in a good position. Otherwise, if you can obtain extra lives and have got 4 or 5 lives , what merit exists to complete the 4 stages?


While I certainly do not disagree with you... with how complex this trick is, you surely won't get first place even if you are able to accomplish it, as I would think that you'll lose substantial time doing the trick. Looking at the history.dat, I'm sure that the rest of the games don't have any of these tricks whatsoever, so I'm going to allow it this time, seeing that this is the first game.

EDIT: The other matter is, now that I'm thinking about it, it was deliberately programmed into the game... I remember a game in the Knockout tournament a while back where a bug in a racing game where you bump into the car and you go speeds normally impossible in the game... those cases where players could utilize unintended bugs I would NOT allow here.


From this point of view, it's true that there is a loss time if somebody tries to obtain the extra lives. I don't how many seconds or minutes are necessary to have successfull results. But if somebody gains 2 or 3 extra lives in less than 2-3 minutes will have a huge (and for me unfair) advantage versus the rivals that don't intend to use the trick.
I can assure that if a player can keep 4 or 5 lives in stage 3 using this tactic, this player could recover a big quantity of time previously lost. This player could use the magic A+B a lof of times, avoiding a lof of critical situations! This person could use a suicidal tactic since then. Easy enemies? Hit and run. Minimum danger or hard enemies? A+B and run.
A+B makes me lose a portion of life? I don't care, I could use it more than 20 consecutive times versus bosses without risk...
This person could chain combos finished with A+B easily, hitting several times and pressing A+B with a minimum loss of life!

Specially versus bosses of stage 3 and 4. A player could defeat Arlon only with A+B and a few hits of weapon! (losing 2 lifes).
And could use the other 2 or 3 remaining lives to defeat Phantom only with A+B!
When you have got only 1 or 2 lives you must use A+B with quite caution, don´t wasting it. You can't abuse of A+B anyway.

For these reasons I will refuse to use this tactic. I'm convinced that will be at least 7-8 playes that will be able to complete the 4 stages or reach the beginning of stage 4.
I only hope these players don't use the trick and don't enjoy that big advantage.
Furthemore, that loss of time is a contradiction with the spirit of the competition "as soon as possible".
A player could be more interested in the tricks and advance slowly to assure finish the 4 stages instead of run very quick.
More than 400.000 with a lof of lives and without assuming risks? Or 225.000-235.000 running like hell?

I don't want to disturb you and I know you posted the tricks with good intentions but I wouldn't propose this kind of tricks or unexpected helps.
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby shoesama » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:04 pm

So I'm guessing you guys are worried about someone taking 50 minutes to beat stg 4 and ranking high as a result?
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby giro-X » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:28 pm

Ho hum, taste of challenge. If only I could get to the 4th level with the starting 2 lives, without tricks... i wouldn't care anymore of who tries the tricks.
That trick, if I didn't misunderstand, forces the player to NOT use the A+B move for the entire stages 1 and 2, this means time to beat enemies normally, time to beat the 2nd boss without A+B, all this being careful not to lose the extra life before the 2nd boss, and then specific moves on the 3rd stage start, that are hard, I've tried them, it's really hard to kill the Bird Man without breaking any barricade... this done once for 2 lives, twice for 3 lives... this is all time gone for succeeding in the trick. One life then is lost with the third boss, one with the fourth, in the middle of stage 3 (because 4 is really too much easy to lose a single life before boss) the player can lose just 2 lives then, or one if he didn't search the 3rd extra live. 2 lives means 14 A+B attacks, (or 12, i don't remember perfectly)... is 14 A+B attacks plus the ones obtained with food enough to save the time lost on the previous 2 stages? I don't think. Stage 3 is really long, and also a clone of the first boss appears, 14 or less A+B attacks are not enough.
Not to mean the difficulty in doing all this. Difficulty in getting the extra lives, little difficulty in using the A+B attacks too, if you aren't good in pressing the keys in the same moment could be an obstacle.
Anyway, I find this move of sharing the tricks a not-bad move. Instead of having someone of the participants that could know it on its own, now anyone knows it and has the same knowledge about the game, and is free to try a method or the other. And like I and someone else is doing, to think which is the shortest. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe really with a perfect game manoeuvre the tricks-trick could be faster... but not so much days are remaining to the 1st week end. If someone desires to win with the trick game - welcome, try :D I don't hope in this luck :D

[pure personal opinion mode=OFF]
[bad spoken english mode=OFF :D]
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby CrazyKongFan » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:40 pm

Minor improvement. Made it to the boss on the 2nd stage, with 1:57 on the first stage, so new score is 115,802, just squeaked out of last place for now :mrgreen:
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby Zhorik » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:44 pm

Destructor did a lot of research into this game back in 2006. This thread may be interesting. It goes into more detail about item manipulation on the game and why it works: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12529&start=41
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby gameboy9 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:16 am

@el_fumador: Again, I can't say that I disagree with you with your "spirit of the game" opinion. But if there's any fault in all of this... it isn't me in posting the trick, it's me for not doing the appropriate research and, therefore, making a bad game choice. But, again, from further research, I don't see any of those types of tricks going forward.

@Agodzilla: Looking at your previous recording, you had the same issue as Rax did earlier in the competition:
gameboy9 wrote:Rax:
Unfortunately, while the X was over the second pawn on the stage 3 map, the rules of this game stipulate that only when the screen fades out and back in is when a substage is completed, which doesn't happen until the stairs of the 2nd substage, so you're given credit for only one substage completed. Therefore, your score on MARP should be reduced by 10,000.


But in this case, that would make your submitted score worse than your current high score, so I'll keep your previously confirmed recording as your high score on the leaderboard.
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby INNUENDO » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:42 am

I agree with Gameboy9. In my opinion, do not exists problems in to do extra life. It is part of the game, not a bug. Or be, it needs to have good skill to do it.

By the way, Gameboy9, when the Round 1 finishes?
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby gameboy9 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:58 am

INNUENDO wrote:... By the way, Gameboy9, when the Round 1 finishes?


It ends Sunday at 235959 GMT... or a little under 36 hours from this post. Please note we're going to start round 2 right after the end of round 1. (or slightly before the end of round 1, depending on my real life schedule...)

I added a time remaining link on the first post.

@all: If you find a link to download the music to the third round of this game, I'm finding this to be more of an upbeat mid-80's new wave song, not more of a serious tone that's portrayed in the game... but maybe that's just me talking. :)
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby el_fumador » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:24 am

Sorry if I seem a bit hard, gameboy. I only wanted to clarify my previous opinion.
As giro-x said it can be quite difficult have suuccess with the trick and a waste of time higher than I expected. No use magic in stages 1 and 2? Wow... hard battle versus Bradford 8O
I apologize if I disturb somebody.
Let's enjoy the game :wink:
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Re: 2011 Time Trials - Round 1 - Knights Of The Round

Postby gameboy9 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:39 am

el_fumador wrote:Sorry if I seem a bit hard, gameboy. I only wanted to clarify my previous opinion.
As giro-x said it can be quite difficult have suuccess with the trick and a waste of time higher than I expected. No use magic in stages 1 and 2? Wow... hard battle versus Bradford 8O
I apologize if I disturb somebody.
Let's enjoy the game :wink:


No worries, you're good... you just gave constructive criticism/opinion... I've got no problem with that! :)
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