TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

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TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby Kale » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:09 am

http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/4/5/b/xyn ... olf175.zip
http://replay.marpirc.net/inp/7/3/d/cum ... olf175.zip

Both inps reports throttling on ST-V disclaimer screens (> 150% of emu speed), and < 90% speed during gameplay.
Nice exploit :?
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby PP. » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:46 am

Those inps of "ffreveng" have speed >90%, so they are legal.

This rom has requirements, so you need a hi speed cpu.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby Kale » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:23 am

So under your assumption you can throttle a Naomi game in service mode, leave it for one hour then play it at 20%?
Don't realize how much dumb your statement is?
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby PP. » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:17 pm

What statement? I told you the facts. This game needs hi speed cpu.
If you record this game with a low cpu you'll have a speed of 50-70%.
Since inps are above 90%, what is the problem?

I do not know how to throttle a game in service mode, leave it for one hour then play it at 20%, do you?
It possible for someone to use such method in order to cheat?
Last edited by PP. on Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby Kale » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:25 pm

inps aren't regular, you get < 90% in-gameplay, that's enough for disqualification.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby PP. » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:26 pm

They told me that overall speed must be >90%.
I have no idea what happens in part speeds.
Can a mod help?

Forgot to tell you that inside game you press f11, then f9, its a way to increase speed and many players have done this.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby mahlemiut » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:07 pm

PP. wrote:Forgot to tell you that inside game you press f11, then f9, its a way to increase speed and many players have done this.


There's nothing wrong with that, persay. It doesn't, at any point, put speed over 100%.

What you are doing, is disabling speed throttling on startup, in an attempt to get past the 90% rule. The rule is intended for those where gameplay is marginally around 90%.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby PP. » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:24 pm

mahlemiut wrote:What you are doing, is disabling speed throttling on startup, in an attempt to get past the 90% rule. The rule is intended for those where gameplay is marginally around 90%.


I don't disable speed throttling because I don't know how to do that.
Just o/c to cpu (you adviced us to do that) and f11-f9 to get 10/10 frame.

So, do we break any rule, are our inps ok?
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby mahlemiut » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:18 pm

PP. wrote:
mahlemiut wrote:What you are doing, is disabling speed throttling on startup, in an attempt to get past the 90% rule. The rule is intended for those where gameplay is marginally around 90%.


I don't disable speed throttling because I don't know how to do that.
Just o/c to cpu (you adviced us to do that) and f11-f9 to get 10/10 frame.

So, do we break any rule, are our inps ok?

F8 and F9 adjust frame skipping, there's no issue with that.
But you're getting >100% constantly during the boot process, which isn't possible unless you disable speed throttling (ie: using -nothrottle, or throttle 0 in mame.ini).
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby PP. » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:22 pm

mahlemiut wrote:But you're getting >100% constantly during the boot process, which isn't possible unless you disable speed throttling (ie: using -nothrottle, or throttle 0 in mame.ini).


I had no idea what means "speed throttling" and how to do that. All I did was a cpu o/c, otherwise speed would be <90%.
I saw it that somethimes speed goes >100%, but I don't know how this happens.
Frankly, we did not use any -nothrottle or throttle 0 command.

What someone earns when speed goes more than 100? I guess this makes his game harder.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby mahlemiut » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:57 am

MAME will go over 100% speed temporarily, if there has been a drop in speed - ie: it will try to keep an average 100% speed.

CPU overclocking can only be done with cheats enabled, and does not cause speed to go over 100%, quite the opposite - it will slow MAME down. Underclocking will speed it up, but either way, it will cause any INP to desync. I somehow doubt that's what you are doing.

Speed throttling means simply that MAME will wait to start the next frames worth of emulation. Disabling it will make MAME run as fast as it possibly can.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby Kale » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:00 am

In any case:
You definitely used speed ups during ST-V copyright screens.
Can you do it on a real PCB? No, so it's cheating
It's also quite stupid tbh: you can skip copyrights by just entering into service mode and quickly exiting it, it won't show them up at all.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby PP. » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:47 am

mahlemiut wrote:MAME will go over 100% speed temporarily, if there has been a drop in speed - ie: it will try to keep an average 100% speed.

CPU overclocking can only be done with cheats enabled, and does not cause speed to go over 100%, quite the opposite - it will slow MAME down. Underclocking will speed it up, but either way, it will cause any INP to desync. I somehow doubt that's what you are doing.



"cpu o/c can only be done with cheats enabled"?
My friend, are you new in computers? cpu o/c is a usual practice, you go to mobo's bios and change some settings.
Its a way to increase the power of your cpu.
Some mame games need a powerful cpu to play properly.
Underclocking of course will make your cpu weaker.

Kale wrote:In any case:
You definitely used speed ups during ST-V copyright screens.
Can you do it on a real PCB? No, so it's cheating
It's also quite stupid tbh: you can skip copyrights by just entering into service mode and quickly exiting it, it won't show them up at all.


Once more, I did not.
What is pcb?

In order to record an inp of "ffreveng" in a speed of >90% you need a multi core cpu of 4GHz, or to o/c you existing one.
Try yourself, record "ffreveng" and use f11 to get 10/10 frames, then check your recorded speed.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby mahlemiut » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:31 pm

PP. wrote:Once more, I did not.
What is pcb?


PCB = Printed Circuit Board
In this case, it refers to the proper hardware that this game runs on.
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Re: TK2012 & PP - ffreveng

Postby BeeJay » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:21 am

PP. wrote:
mahlemiut wrote:MAME will go over 100% speed temporarily, if there has been a drop in speed - ie: it will try to keep an average 100% speed.

CPU overclocking can only be done with cheats enabled, and does not cause speed to go over 100%, quite the opposite - it will slow MAME down. Underclocking will speed it up, but either way, it will cause any INP to desync. I somehow doubt that's what you are doing.



"cpu o/c can only be done with cheats enabled"?
My friend, are you new in computers? cpu o/c is a usual practice, you go to mobo's bios and change some settings.
Its a way to increase the power of your cpu.
Some mame games need a powerful cpu to play properly.
Underclocking of course will make your cpu weaker.

I think you'll find that Barry was referring to overclocking the emulated CPUs within Mame for the game being emulated, nothing to do with the speed and/or the overclocking of whatever the physical device is on which you're executing Mame. He was therefore entirely correct when he said that overclocking of these emulated CPUs within Mame can only be done when you have Mame cheats enabled.

Given that Barry also programmes the WolfMame extensions, as well as helping with writing some of the game emulations, it's indeed amusing for you to even try to suggest that he is "new in computers"?!? Perhaps if you'd been around for longer, and/or also considered the contributions that Barry has made to Mame over the years, you wouldn't make such a foot-in-your-mouth statement and try to explain what would have been the bleedingly obvious to Barry!

... and if you understood a little bit more about the impact that under/overclocking the emulated CPU speeds would have on the emulation process, you'd understand why Barry is also correct that overclocking the emulated CPU speed in Mame will at some point, depending on the level to which you overclock it and the underlying power of your physical device, result in that emulated game running considerably slower on your physical device.

Cheers,
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