wrx2 ptrlr inp

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zlk
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wrx2 ptrlr inp

Post by zlk »

Here is the inp:

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/4/9/0/wr ... mame70.zip

Here is the problem: He gets his advertised score of 44710. However after the game ends and the machine goes into attract mode, he for some strange reason gets more points. Wrx2 reported the score he got when he died, so I confirmed the inp. In retrospect maybe his higher score should be reported. I hope others can watch the inp and then post their opinions.
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Post by LN2 »

I played this game myself in the past week. I haven't watched my inp though to see if similar occurs. Given it's a bootleg type clone perhaps after the game is over whatever is scored in attract mode is just added to the previous game score...hehe I'll play it a couple this evening cuz I want to get the top score for that anyway. :P
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Re: wrx2 ptrlr inp

Post by Mr. Kelly R. Flewin »

zlk wrote:Here is the inp:

http://marp.retrogames.com/inp/4/9/0/wr ... mame70.zip

Here is the problem: He gets his advertised score of 44710. However after the game ends and the machine goes into attract mode, he for some strange reason gets more points. Wrx2 reported the score he got when he died, so I confirmed the inp. In retrospect maybe his higher score should be reported. I hope others can watch the inp and then post their opinions.
Nope... it seems to be a glitch from it being a bootleg... the game keeps running that attract mode over and over for a LONG time... but... this should be banned for leeching... only stating as such because this bootleg allows you to COMPLETE Stage 1 and go to Stage 2

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Post by LN2 »

I'll have to watch this one. I just submitting a 1.2 million score for it. I guess I'll have to rewatch it to count how many levels I completed. It's at least 50 levels I completed. I think the most "monsters" I rolled over on 1 level was 4 or 5...with exception of first level where I think I rolled over 6 of them.

Are you saying WRX2 just stays on stage 1 for that entire game?

I thought after a certain point the monsters get scared and from away from you when at a roller. Perhaps in this bootleg clone they don't?

I found they do in later levels...but perhaps don't on the early ones?

Anyway, I'll watch his inp...although with my score it doesn't matter as much now. :P
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Post by LN2 »

ok, I watched a little of his...and a couple others. Oh man, all of them use that leeching technique or rolling back and forth until they can coax 1 or both of them into the roller area to roll over them. Only then do they work on clearing the board some until they come back out where they just go right back babysitting at a roller until they get them again.

I don't play like that at all. If I get them together I'll lead them to a roller sure...and try and do that twice for each board....but otherwise I am clearing the boards to get to the next cuz beyond twice you have to do that lame rolling tactic to get them to not just back away all the time. I'm not delaying completing a board like these guys to get 5-10+ monsters on each board.

I was surprised even the 2.5 million top score of make trax uses this lame tactic for playing the game.

Oh well...hard to make that illegal though as there is a little bit of risk to doing what they do...and the men they lost were when trying to do that and mistiming a "roll" or something similar.
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Post by Mr. Kelly R. Flewin »

LN2 wrote:Oh well...hard to make that illegal though as there is a little bit of risk to doing what they do...and the men they lost were when trying to do that and mistiming a "roll" or something similar.
That's the downer... but still.. a skilled player could keep at it for a LONG time... but if there's no other way of getting men... I'd almost say there should be a time limit of how long you can stay on a stage... to prevent leeching in such cases... but then I don't know how it'd work out in the end...


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Post by zlk »

I don't think you can regulate how people play stages. If someone finds a way to score more points than you on a stage you have two options: you can continue to try to beat them by clearing more stages or you can use their technique.
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Post by QRS »

zlk wrote:I don't think you can regulate how people play stages. If someone finds a way to score more points than you on a stage you have two options: you can continue to try to beat them by clearing more stages or you can use their technique.
It depends on how far the leeching goes, if you gain extra lives with no risk of dying etc. So yes, you can regulate it if the public does not like it. Right now my opinion is neutral, cause I have yet to see the way how this 'trick' works. I will state my opinion after I have watched a recording :)
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Post by LN2 »

zlk, watch one of those inps to see exactly what is going on.

It's quite lame IMHO...sort of a way a 5-year old kid likely would play the game.....running to a "safety zone" when the enemy is out....then babysitting there until they are able to roll over the monsters..and only clear when both are in their home before they come back out then the second they come out...the player gets back on that roller for safety. Are they clueless of guiding them around the board to clear the board while they are out? They are on each board for several minutes and use the roller 100s of times...pacing back and forth for 30+ seconds at a time just to get the monsters space just right so they come back into the roller area to be rolled over....clearing a little bit more of board then back on the roller to repeat the process over and over and over again.

It's a shame you can't watch mine for paintrlr in pc-mames as a contrast. The inp tracks the movement input correctly on PCs on playback, but I guess there is some pseudo-random issue for the choice of which way the "monsters" come out of their home at the start of a board.
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Post by zlk »

Rick I would like to see how you play make trax. I have always found that game interesting even though I am quite terrible at it. It is too bad I don't have a mac.

Personally I am more impressed by someone who can finish a game or can clear the most boards in a game, than someone putting up a high score and not finishing. I think on some japanese ranking pages if you get further than someone else you are ranked ahead of them, even if your score is lower. I like this system but understand its drawbacks.

It is like apples and oranges though. Some people do whatever it takes to get a high score and maximize points. Other players like myself just try to finish a game on one credit, then once that is accomplished try to point maximize. To be honest though I haven't finished that many games and once I do, I usually forget about maximizing points and move on to something else. 8O Both kinds of inps are interesting to see. I can also appreciate the effort in trying to reach either goal: a high score or racking up the boards/finishing a game.
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Post by LN2 »

zlk wrote:Rick I would like to see how you play make trax. I have always found that game interesting even though I am quite terrible at it. It is too bad I don't have a mac.
Yeah, it's a shame there is a pseudo-random issue. However, I would describe my play as very pacman or mspacman type.

I am almost constantly moving around the entire board...with the primary goal of completing the board and moving on to the next(especially for Make Trax where you get 9000 pts bonus for completing each level...on later boards) and if/when the 2 "monsters" happen to link up I let them chase me around the board and I get where I lead them to a roller and roll over them....then wait for them to come back out...go around the board clearing more....if they get grouped tightly together again I again lead them to a roller and roll over them. However, I often delay this second rolling....letting them chase me as I clean up the "mess" from the object that comes out...and getting where the board is almost complete...then lead them to that roller that second time. On later boards that's all you get "easily". If you just try and directly have them chase you to a roller after that they shy away so you can't roll over them. You have to use the rolling back and forth technique to get just the right spacing to get them more than that. I don't bother. I just complete the board...move on to the next and do the same thing.

Maybe I can make a short quicktime movie showing my typical board on the later boards. The quality of the movie wouldn't be very good cuz with my slower older mac I would only be able to capture a movie at same time as playing back an inp at only about 5-8 fps....but that would show you all you need. I actually have more problems on the early boards than the later boards. On the later boards the "monsters" are more predictable. On the early boards they often don't keep following you and break away.
Personally I am more impressed by someone who can finish a game or can clear the most boards in a game, than someone putting up a high score and not finishing.
Finish? Does this game have a kill screen at #256 or something? If so, I would love to reach that.

I'll have to watch that 1.2 million for paintrlr I submitted to see how many boards I cleared. I'm guessing it was at least 40-50 boards. A typical board I would likely average getting 3 monsters...cuz half the boards I could get 2-double rollovers(4 monsters at 9k each) but the other half get only 2 and some not any at all cuz they never grouped close enough together in naturally clearing the board to roll over them conveniently.

I like the Make Trax USA version of the game the most cuz it does give you bonus points for clearing each board. Other clones/variants don't...so your main source of points on those is rolling over the monsters.

If the game does reach a kill screen that changes things yet again cuz then you almost have to leech points off the monsters to get a higher score.
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Post by Francois Daniel »

[quote="zlk"]Personally I am more impressed by someone who can finish a game or can clear the most boards in a game, than someone putting up a high score and not finishing. I think on some japanese ranking pages if you get further than someone else you are ranked ahead of them, even if your score is lower. I like this system but understand its drawbacks.
quote]

Yes, I agree. At Jvrm, rankings are made by stage reach then by scores :)

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Re: wrx2 ptrlr inp

Post by Crash »

It's actually the only way to play the game and get lots of points on the boards without spending another 3 hours clearing more boards with less points on each.

I've actually scored just over 3 million on an arcade machine (KRL Crush Roller) back in 1983 WITHOUT using this technique. It took hours and it was in a 2 player game where my friend scored over 1mil as well. 3 lives and 1 extra at 10,000 points only.

My original 1.4 mill on Crush Roller on MAME was without this technique as I didn't know about it until I saw Salvador Tenorio do it with 1.4 mill.

Yes there is always a risk involved especially on the later stages as the game does get faster and faster.

Just don't call my technique lame. I really don't appreciate that. Yes I could get the #1 on all the clones if I could be bothered to play it any more.

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Re: wrx2 ptrlr inp

Post by LN2 »

Crash wrote:It's actually the only way to play the game and get lots of points on the boards without spending another 3 hours clearing more boards with less points on each.

Just don't call my technique lame. I really don't appreciate that. Yes I could get the #1 on all the clones if I could be bothered to play it any more.

Crash.
crash, I have watched a couple of your inps and you are NOT doing with the other gamer is doing.

He NEVER advances past the first level....just rolling forever...no intention to advance the game because the method he is using won't work beyond the first 1 or 2 boards. It's lame cuz the tota score is from the first screen... 2.2 million? all on first screen...it's lame.

I have no problem as you advance through stages rolling over a few getting a few 9600s....but then you don't stay there for the entire game...you move on to the next board....and roll over etc. you get far more per level than I generally do...but I get them when I can and can clear through boards fairly quickly.

by default thegame will let you roll over 2 pairs or 2 rolls over 1 or 2 at a time on the later boards...but that seems about it.

on first level, the enemies move slowly enough you can still roll over them all you want later....into the millions without ever clearing 1 stage.

anyone can watch his inp fora couple minutes then reproduce what he is doing...it's pretty trivial to learn thus taking away any meaning to a score for the game...why it's lame
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Re: wrx2 ptrlr inp

Post by Chad »

nibbler is doing the same thing.

http://marp.retrogames.com/r/paintrlr

bbh needs to make a ruling/start a poll, nibbler and wrx2 are clearly going against the "progress" rule. YOu need to show you can get 9000's on the faster levels.

(1) don't allow more than one 9000 score per level or DQUED
(2) don't allow any 9000 scores on early levels (1-3) or DQUED
(3) give multiplier bonus points for each level finished, 1=10000 2=20000 ..., so if you finish 3 levels you get 60000 bonus.
(N) etc....
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