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Discussion about MARP's Tournaments

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Postby mahlemiut » Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:05 pm

Final results are in:

1st: NotMan (791)
2nd: Potante (788)
3rd: RichyS (766)
4th: Zwax (762)

Congratulations to NotMan! \:D/
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Postby RichyS » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:18 am

Thanks Barry,

I enjoyed playing that (apart from Darkstalker :( ). Would have been nice to finish second from bottom out of twenty rather than four.

Cheers all

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Postby LN2 » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:33 am

Novice wrote:If you can not, then you will try to be illegal what any tecnique what you can not carry out.
(AS ALWAYS.)
Camel try's case was very typical.
That was triple higher than yours. and what did you do?

uuuh, it wasn't just me...but a large majority at MARP. All I did was bring it up and state playing the game as you did...which is what I call you using any and every technique to get the highest score you can get(great for some scoreboards...illegal for others)...

ok fine...tecnhiques like warping through walls...nice...it gives you higher scores...so what? If that trick was allowed it only would be a matter of time before a few had set 9,999,990 scores or whatever that max was.

competition is then totally lost. QRS and I wher having a great competition where we both pushed our skill levels way up there during our competition..surpassing all other previous score set by a wide margin...into borderline masterful levels approaching max scores you can get playing the game as designed. Then you come along with the cheap trick which destroyed the fun and competition we were having playing the game as intended. Why do you want to make the game pointless to play? Special rules are made to play this particular game following the rules of the developers of the actual game. The fact they overlooked setting rotation sensitivity so it is faster than the collision detection to exploit it for scores is cheating in almost every aspect possible. That is playing a different game...not the same game everyone else is playing. sorry, I don't play such games. most others don't either. That isn't what gaming is about IMHO.

hmm, let's see...a couple mspac variants have where if you press both player keys at the same time monster collision detection is turned off. You could easily use this(which the game code itself allows) to set very hgh score but that is outright cheating where you are avoiding death.

oh, q*bert...tricks to make all enemies disappear..forever! Ok, so you then play a 5 year marathon on the game... what is the point?

this of course isn't allowed for any scoreboard for this game...yet surprisingly other set spot leeching etc. in many games is allowed...with little to no risk of death.

I guess you will never understand that. it is something that should be at the heart of any gamer.
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Postby zlk » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:37 pm

LN2 wrote:I guess you will never understand that. it is something that should be at the heart of any gamer.


As I have pointed out before, what is "against the spirit of the game" is not some universal truth. A good example of this is the offroad technique in outrun. Many people claim this tactic is "against the spirit of the game" or is "not what the programmers intended." However when sega released a new console port of outrun, in their magazine ads there is a screenshot of someone using the technique. It was one of two screenshots shown. If sega were so against people doing it, if it were so "against the spirit of the game," they certainly would not included a screenshot of someone using the offroad technique in their ad.

Then people claim the technique is makes the game too easy and thus "will destroy competition." The problem with this argument is that plenty of people play outrun in Japan. There is lots of competition for anyone who wants to play. If people think it makes the game too easy, there is one way to win the argument: beat the gamest record in outrun. Show everyone how it is done. I can guarantee it won't be easy. :D
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Postby LN2 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:19 am

zlk wrote:However when sega released a new console port of outrun, in their magazine ads there is a screenshot of someone using the technique. It was one of two screenshots shown. If sega were so against people doing it, if it were so "against the spirit of the game," they certainly would not included a screenshot of someone using the offroad technique in their ad.

could that just be a coincidence? basing a lot just on a picture. did the artcile actually discuss the trick and state the programmers intentionally put that in the game?

oh, I have seen many mspac or pacman pictures that have situations that aren't even possible.

We see articles for games where the screenshot isn't even for what they are talking about etc. I remember many articles about classic games just being poorly written where the writer seemed not to really know about the game where it had totally wrong information about the game in the article.
Then people claim the technique is makes the game too easy and thus "will destroy competition." The problem with this argument is that plenty of people play outrun in Japan.

this isn't the same case for outrun. not like cameltry.

sure, you can still have a competition where all are using the trick. But that is a separate competition where scores can't be compared to a competition where you aren't using the trick. The truly very best racers that might not want to ever use the trick won't have the highest scores. All the highest scores are using the trick.

MARP found as fair of a solution as it could by having one of the rom sets allow the offroad trick...and others not allowing it. This allows for competition on both types of play.

Personally, I would rather see the true-out racing...not a trick where you can by-pass the harder areas of the courses where it really makes a difference racing it straight.

Yes, there is still a lot besides that...as well as the execution of the trick itself...but something is definitely lost there. It's up to each scoreboard to decide which they want...or perhaps both tracked separately.
there is one way to win the argument: beat the gamest record in outrun. Show everyone how it is done. I can guarantee it won't be easy. :D

yes, I am sure it wouldn't be easy...the top scorers likely played the game tons...plus a few of them likely could kick butt playing it without using the trick as well. I would much rather see these masters play the game that way versus using the trick. Playing the game without the trick you can't even get close to the same score. You might be setting a new WR in score racing at a higher skill than anyone(cuz more traffic and bushes to avoid and curves to negotiate) yet not show in score cuz all others used the trick.

remember novice claimed himself to be an absolute master of cameltry when he used that cheap warp trick. I had never done the trick...and in just 2 games set a score just to show it takes little skill to do it...getting 2.3 million where in 100s of plays reaching very precise and skillful play playing it as intended QRS and I...then later TJT were getting around 700k.

if those warps were allowed, it makes all scores pointless..cuz soon many would have the max...evne if the game didn't max out....big deal..you cheapened the game...playing a different aspect of it etc. not even the same skill set required for that versus playing it normally.

we all know most of these classic games have flaws or code errors you can exploit. This doesn't make the gamer more skillful by exploiting it.

each is decided on a case by case and scoreboard by scoreboard basis. just cuz some other's score is much higher does not always equate with higher skill....many think this is always the case. it is flawed. It is often the case, but not always the case.
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Postby mahlemiut » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:56 am

LN2 wrote:could that just be a coincidence? basing a lot just on a picture. did the artcile actually discuss the trick and state the programmers intentionally put that in the game?


Who said anything about an article? It's just an advert, presumably.

Anyway, haven't we been through this already? Didn't we determine that the same trick is in Outrunners as well? How about other games in the series, or Sega-produced ports? Or perhaps an X68000 port? The X68000 is well known for having awesomely accurate arcade ports. ;)
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Postby Novice » Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:51 am

Subjective opinion is not important.
Winner is notman congratulations. :D

by the way,who want to hear ignorant asshole's complain?
I will never get any worthy information.
so I think I have to ignore that worthless guy.

P.S.
noo's rompers play was far from flawless at thier level.
even if it is much higher than ignorant guy's ultimate possibility.
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Postby The TJT » Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:29 am

IMO previous Novice's post should be deleted by a mod. Free speech does not include childish name calling. it's against the forum and marp rules.
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Postby LN2 » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:40 am

Novice wrote:P.S.
noo's rompers play was far from flawless at thier level.
even if it is much higher than ignorant guy's ultimate possibility.

you are full of it. I didn't submit my 680k cuz I wasn't playing out t10. If I submitted a score for rompers again it would be 1+ million.

I just needed to get my developing patterns down a bit more before having a 1+ million game.

if notman was getting 3-5 1-ups, only reaching 680k, that isn't that great IMHO. I was reaching that with no 1-up crushes...just the men I started with plus those awarded at point levels.

I have no interest in playing and submitting just to have you bash me down again. Grow up.

if you engaged me like a person, maybe I would have tried for a 1+ million game as MARP has none shown.
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Postby Zhorik » Tue May 01, 2007 1:03 am

Zhorik wrote:Ok, $50 cash bounty for breaking 5M before the end of T10. $150 for breaking 10M before 23:59 GMT April 27th, 2007. Recordings must be in Wolf101 or 106 and at least 99% average speed. Recordings must be submitted to MARP. Please plan on leaving your recording at MARP and not deleting it after receiving your bounty payout.

I'll post a more formal announcement later. For the purposes of this bounty, leeching your remaining lives on the last screen is allowed (and for 10M will definitely be required).

-Zhorik

My bounty expired (not sure about Novice's). If somebody's been working on it and really wants to keep at it, let me know in the next week and I'll consider extending it.
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